(OUTDATED:Archived from 2015,Some arugments still hold up but others are outdated, stick tune for updates)
Here are some of the most comment arguments used by DBZtards and here’s my debunking of said arguments.
fictionalomniverse.forumotion.com/t863-top-20-dbztard-lies-and-misinformation-part-1#9155
20)Vegeta is a casual Earth sized Planet buster
One of the most common used arguments by DBZtards is the use of the Aira Filler
Although the aired Feat is filler ( So is SSJ4), it’s not too far off from what Vegeta or even Nappa are capable of doing. Vegeta is able to easily bust the core of the planet by manipulating the GBE( Gravitational Binding Energy ) of Aria to collapse onto itself.
Aria: 105 px (7599.3 km)
Aria’s Moon:24px (1737km)
www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/T…
Planet destroying yield:4.743E+31 joules
Overall yield:11.34 Zettatons of TNT
So no, Vegeta can’t effortlessly planet bust planets the size of Earth, at best he can only destroy planets with 1/5th the mass and size of Earth. To blow up a Earth sized planet, you need 57.3 Zettatons of TNT just to blow up the core of the Earth.Close but no cigar DBZtards. Why is this much lower ? Because it’s not too far off from what Vegeta or Nappa can do, however it’s deeply exaggerated .
19) Planet Vegeta is much bigger than Earth
One of the most often used arguments in DBZ is the argument that Planet Vegeta is much bigger than Earth, this is often thrown as an argument by DBZtards in an failed attempt to rationalize they’re inflating of DBZ power levels.
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The planet doesn’t appear to be any larger than Earth as seen with it’s moon compared to our own Moon. Honestly that’s all there is to debunk this myth that Planet Vegeta is much bigger than our Earth. Nice try DBZtards.
18) Goku in GT can power an entire Galaxy in base form(OUTDATED)
Another common argument by DBZtards is to use the claim from GT that Goku can power an entire Galaxy in base.This is based on a claim and nothing more really, aside from this being non canon, it’s a baseless claim that doesn’t stand up to claim.
Let’s explain why there’s no way Kid Goku could be Galaxy level within GT even with 15 years of training.
This is from the flashback in which Kid Buu busted an entire Galaxy over a period of a few years.
Unknown Galaxy Buu attacked: 279px
Kid Buu’s explosions: 3px each
Therefore we get something like this
Galaxy( Assuming it the same size as the Milky Way Galaxy): 100,000ly
Kid Buu’s Ki blasts:1,080 ly
Potential amount of stars busted via radius of exploison:3,225,806,461.612903
Energy need to bust the Sun:163.19 Tenatons
To get the yield of the attack, do this
3,225,806,461.612903×163.19=526,419,356,468.504 Tenatons
Now divide that by 23.9 Tenakilotons to get the final result of Buu’s power
526,419,356,468.504 Tenatons/ 23.9 Tenakilotons
22,025,914.42839789 Foe
Kid Buu’s Ki blast yeild: 22.026 MegaFoe
Kid Goku in base GT=Kid Buu’s full power.
Even in SSJ4, Goku’s DC is only 88 Giga Foe, only Small Galaxy level. So nope, Kid Goku in base is not Galaxy level in GT, or even Small Galaxy level.
17)King Vegeta is Multi-Planet level to Planet level.
Those are not moons, its the same design as the other planets, where moons are just white rocks. That is a large planet with 2 normal planets on the side, and to make it much better it was done casually with a wave of King Vegeta hand, and holding back might add since Nappa himself survives the blast.
Here’s a calc debunking this argument entirely .
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Planet King Vegeta was on:105px (12,750km diameter)
Closet planet to King Vegeta:29px(3,521km diameter)
Furthest planet from Vegeta: 44px (5,342 km diameter)
Distance to small planet 1: 70 px (8,500 km )
Distance to small planet 2: 151 px (18,335km )
Yeah the size and distance alone debunks it even being more than 2 Earths in distance from one planet to another.
Now for actual yield of the explosions per planet using these calculators
www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/T…
Planet 1(King Vegeta’s planet): 53.7 Zettatons of TNT( GBE of Earth)
Planet 2( Closet to explosion)1.144 zettatons ( GBE of Mars)
Planet 3( Furthest from explosion)1.648E+31 joules or 3.94 Zetatons
King Vegeta’s total yeild:58.78 Zettatons of TNT
That’s just barely over the 53.7 Zettaton minimum needed to planet bust.
All the feat proves is that Nappa and anyone between the power levels of 2,000 to 10,000 can destroy planets as small as Mercury in one blast and potentially planetbust Earth via denotation of it’s core but proves that Sayain’s can breathe in space( Otherwise they wouldn’t of blown up the planet they’re on with them ) and survive up to 53.7 Zettatons of TNT, the minimum force needed to planetbust.
16) Goku trained in 100x gravity and up to 500x gravity, therefore he beats anyone
One of the most common arguments DBZtards makes is the fact Goku trained in 100g’s and hence can beat virtually anyone. This is a massive argument of ignorance as it automatically assumes that no character has trained in 100g’s.This is especially prevalent in forums regarding Sailor Moon and Superman.
First of all training in Gravity is not exclusive to DBZ nor something DBZ has done frist. Second there is a fundamentalist misunderstanding on ho Gravity works in fiction in DBZ. While they do cover surface gravity, they don”t cover acceleration gravity at all and in fact this gravity argument can easily be turned against DBZtards fairly easily due to their own misunderstanding of Gravity.
Surface gravity is not the same as acceleration gravity. Surface gravity affects all things equally, hence why a human under 100 gs would weigh about 10,000kg.This is standard weight within the Surface gravity chambers and moving at 0 MPH.
Pre Fireza Saga Goku with a power level of 30,000 can move at least 20 times the speed of light without Kaioken( Given his brother Raditz is light speed via his dodging of Piccolo’s Special Beam Canon which is at least Relativistic)
There is also acceleration that is a factor as well. Gravity is not just constant gravitational pull but also the acceleration force of objects . A human can only survive up to 982 m/s² or 100 g’s of acceleration before dying or roughly 3 times the speed of sound. This means that a person needs to survive at least 314,642.85 g’s or nearly the surface gravity of a White Dwarf Star moving at the speed of light.
Gioku’s acceleration gravity at this state would be at least 6,292,857 g’s moving at 20 times the speed of light . With Goku’s body weighing 100 times it’s normal density under 100 times earth’s surface gravity, Goku would struggle greatly to achieve 1/100th the speed and acceleration force needed to move around freely.
However let’s skip the technicalities and show why Goku is not the only one who can tank extreme gravity..
Superman for example has tanked Black Holes and played baseball with Neutron Stars. A Neutron Star alone has 300,000,000,000 times earth’s gravity. It took Goku 3 weeks just to adjust to 10 times gravity and around a week to adjust to 100 times gravity and Vegeta 3 years to adjust to 450 times gravity.
Going by the low end, it would take Goku 1,730,769,230.769 years to adjust to the gravity of a Neutron Star if it took him around 3 weeks just to adjust to 10 times Earth’s gravity. At mid end, it would take Goku 576,923,076.9230769 years just to adjust to that with the fact it took him a week to adjust to 100’G. Hell we go by Multiplier’s of SSJ as a factor to offset gravity like with the infamous”40 tons ” feat, Goku can adjust to around the equivalent of 100 G’s in one second and his Multiplier’s with SSJ make him higher and higher with SSJG being at least 160,000 times SSJ3 power. It would take Goku 9 years to adjust to 300 Billion G’s whereas it takes no effort from Superman at all.
Now for adjusting to the gravity of a blackhole.This is Newton’s Law of Gravitation. The value of the constant G is 6.67428×10-11 which is quite small, however when you put in the mass of the sun and the earth and the distance between them the force that comes out is 3.76×1022N, which is equivalent a thousand million million (1 followed by 15 zeros) Saturn V rockets.
The Gravity of Saturn V moon rocket just after launch is 1.14 g’s. A black-hole has up to 1.14 Quadrillion G’s. That is over 3,800 times the gravity of a Neutron Star. For Goku to adjust to this gravity, it would take him 34,200 years at his strongest state. Now onto the amount of energy needed to escape a black-hole.
As we established,Going from zero to 314,642.85 g’s would require far more energy than merely 175 Megatons of TNT to withstand the force. To move at the speed of light safely and not be affected by gravity or vaporization energy, it would require an output and durability to withstand over 55 Teratons of TNT or over half the yield of the Chibuku comet that wiped out the dinosaurs. This is under merely 1 G’s of the surface gravity of Earth.
To move at such force and have the energy to escape a Blackhole, it would require 19.728 Tenakilotons of force per second at the very least and that’s not even counting adjustment to Gravity.
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Note Superman can fly straight through blackholes no problem at all.
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And can withstand the force of 1.14 Qaudrillion G’s
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Even the New 52 Superman tanked Blackhole lasers that are desgined to have the power of a microblackhole which is the equivalent of Star busting rounds.
Sailor Senshi in R season alone easily withstood the Event Horizon of a Blackhole, which is the point of no return with over 1.14 Qaudrillion G’s of force.
They can also very easily resist the pull of the blackhole which confirms they have enough power to accelerate past the yield needed to withstand a blackhole
And Sailor Moon herself in the anime easily got up from at least 989 times Earth’s gravity in merely a minute. This is by far the most radical strength feat from Sailor Moon i’ve observed. Think about this carefully. Sailor Moon is withstanding the same amount of gravity that would make reinforced steel dent and crack under it’s immense power, so much for Senshi not having physical power to back up their magical power. In short going by the fact you need roughly 50 tons of weight to smash reinforced steel and Usgai weights 110 lbs, that means Usgai is resisting over 900 times Earth’s Gravity. That’s right, you’re not reading this wrong,900 times gravity she withstood and stood up to fight against, IN HER FIRST TIME ! Mind you, it took Goku weeks just to get use to 10 times Gravity when he trained with King Kai and a full week to get use to 100 times Earth’s Gravity. This feat alone makes Sailor Moon Orders of Magnitude stronger than Fireza Saga Goku at this point considering if she can quickly adapt to 900 G’s, 100 G’s would be nothing to her.
DBZ character’s aren’t the only verses that can have character adapt to gravity.
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15)King Kai is Star level +
Another attempt by DBZtards to upscale DBZ is the attempt to wank King Kai as Star level+ because he defeated Bojack along with the other Kais. This is based on the assumption that the Bojack movie is canon to the series. It obviously isn’t and in fact the Kais sealing Bojack is a PIS moment considering King Kai’s power level is only 3,500 which is only as strong as Piccolo Jr in the Sayain Saga whereas Bojacks power level is as powerful as Prefect Cell..
Really there’s not much need to debunk this feat considering the fact it refutes itself given even by DBZtard standards, that means that King Kai can beat Fireza effortlessly, yet in the Namek Saga, he shat his pants at the thought of anyone fighting Fireza, even himself. Hell he shat his pants at the thought of having to actually fighting the Sayains.
14)Master Roshi was a moonbuster at a power level of 139
One of the most common and dishonest forms of inflating power levels and powers within DBZ is the claim Roshi at a power level of 139 can moon bust. It’s an outright lie to say the least given the fact Roshi with such a power level comes nowhere close to Moon Busting.
In fact King Piccolo who had a power level twice as high could barely City bust without being exhausted severely. This.This alone debunks the myth that Roshi can moon bust within a power level of 139.
Further case in point of King Piccolo not being anywhere near Moon level is him stating his full power would shorten his lifespan.And he stated prior to his attack, that this is his full power.
Therefore a power level of 260=Only city level +
Because that’s actually his base power, not maximum power level readings.
Another case and power is that Piccolo with a power level of 322 is only shown to be a casual Island buster with his casual ki attacks, there is no way Roshi with a power level of 139 is a moon buster.
Even with his Demon Explosive Wave, he’s at best only Continent level which means around a power level of 600-660
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Adult Goku at his weakest tanked a blast that’s capable of wiping out an enitre island the size of a country, this is with a power level of 330-660. If anything, let’s calc the size of the Island nation of
Earth: 909 px
Width of Island:14 px
Length of Island:123 px
Now for actual size
Earth:12,750km
Width of island:193.5973597359736 km
Length of the Island:1725.247524752475 km
Area of Island:334,003.365683103 sq km (128,959.42 square miles), almost the size of Nicaragua
Now time to determine the power of the blast itself.
As seen within the manga scans, 90% of the island was complete destroyed by Piccolo’s attack and reduced to dust with only the outer limits being intact.
Speed of the exploison: Mach 100( Typical explosive speed of a nuke)
Energy needed to vaporize rock: 7.63 MJ/kg
Density of rocks: 150 lbs per cubic foot or 68.2kg
Area completely vaporized: 300,602.7 sq km
68.2kgx7,630,000×1,076,400×300,602.7x100x768=1.293113658061352e+25 joules or 3.09 Petatons of TNT
Minium force needed to destroy an entire continent: 1.33 petatons of TNT or 13.3 times the force of the Chixculub Impact that has the total yeild of 2 Million Tsar Bombas.
Goku with a power level of 660-915 maxed tanked 2.32 times the energy needed to destroy an entire continent.
Only at around 800 to 900 does moon busting seen possible , in fact here’s this key fact backing up the claim.
This proves that you need at least the power level of 800 in Dragon Ball Z to do moonbusting when even a power level around 322-660 is not shown to be nearly enough.
And before the DBZtards claim that if Piccolo and Goku were that powerful, why were they curbstomped by Raditz ? Simple, notice that both Goku and Piccolo without weighted clothing were around 322-336 in 23rd Budokai? They are easily that power level against Raditz with Weighted clothing, proving they got much stronger in the 5 year skip. Further evidence by the fact that Piccolo’s peak power was around 900 in 23rd Budokai whereas his special Beam Canon was around 1,333
Given scouters at best only measure base power levels, they did not factor a serious Roshi or his MAX POWER state . After all, what ultimately killed Raditz was the fact he was arrogant and relied too much on the scouter for base power level readings.
Roshi powered up when he blew up the moon with his moon busting Kamehameha Wave so he was nowhere near 139, he was far stronger. Considering his MAX power form resembles the power of Ultra Sayain , his power is more than 10 times higher base, putting Roshi up to 1390, however up until Battle of Gods, he couldn’t use it due to decrease in speed and durability which would’ve made it impossible to use against King Piccolo who was faster than Kid Goku.
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Another thing debunking this claim is Piccolo with a power level base level of around 322 with weighted clothing blowing up the moon.Even that Piccolo had some difficulty busting the moon despite what people tend to think.
Note the blast used against Radtiz was around the same energy output he used against the moon as seen with the two scans here. Meaning the blast Piccolo fired was not casual, however it wasn’t his full power either given he was wearing weighted clothing which limits his power by 25%.
If i had to guess, the moon busting feat had to be at least 800 to 1,000 at the very least and that’s not even factoring in the fact this was post Radtiz Saga Piccolo who did this feat and Namekaians can get strong enough at a rate that rivals the Sayains so yeah consider that factor there.
So this alone debunks the claim Roshi at 139 can Moon Bust or King Piccolo can planetbust.
For those what want to ask”If Roshi was this strong, why didn’t he beat King Piccolo”? The answer is simple, originally his form had a major weakness, it’s lack of speed. Roshi himself admits he doesn’t like using this form because of the drawbacks it has in speed,stamina and even durability.
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As Goku stated much later in the Cell Games, Ultra Super Sayian suffers the same drawbacks as Master Roshi’s buff form, all that power is useless if you can’t catch your opponent.
As we all know , in Revival of F, Roshi got much stronger due to 27 years of mastering that power but that’s a non factor here. Either way, you can’t bust planets with a power level of 139 or Moons.
13)Goku is Light Speed in Dragon Ball
One of the most dishonest and disingenuous arguments DBZtards make in general is this hyperbolic claim Goku is Light-speed within Dragon Ball.One of the most common arguments used to argue this power is the fact Goku dodged Solar Flare, which is no doubt a light-speed move at the very least.However let’s look closely at how Goku “dodged ” that move.
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Do tell me if Goku can dodge Light, why does he need sunglasses ? After all, if one moves faster than light, they wouldn’t need sunglasses to block a light-speed ability right ? Also note when Goku says “Here it comes ” ,meaning Goku reacted to Tien, not the speed of the attack. The attack might be light-speed, but Tien sure as hell wasn’t in this arc and neither was Goku.
If anything Goku didn’t dodge Solar Flare the first time it was used did he ? Nor did Roshi who at the time equaled Budokai 22nd Goku’s power and speed. Funny how Goku was unable to dodge it the first time and how Roshi who is just as fast as Goku couldn’t dodge it either.This proving that
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Though some would try to argue that Goku disappeared from Kirlin’s sight in an attempt to argue this point Goku is FTL. However they fail to realize you don’t need to be FTL to disappear from the human eye.
Given the average speed of a normal human is 3.5 to 4.5 miles per hour with their reaction speed being dozens of times faster. The fastest shown speed from humans is 44.7 km/h (12.4 m/s or 27.78 mph) with maximum reaction speed being at best 201 mph or the literal speed of a blink of a eye.
Goku blitzing Kirin isn’t impossible considering the fact Kirin is at least as fast and strong as Merceanry Tao who is Mach 13.95. Goku by comparison would be Mach 139.5 around Budokai 22/King Piccolo Arc given he’s slower than natural lighting but still easily in the Massively Hypersonic range.That’s more than enough to easily make it appear that Goku is invisible to the naked eye. After all the gap between reaction speed and movement speed is only 7.2 times. Goku is easily 10 times Kiin’s speed.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/8771SIpog6c
Not that it matters either given the same manga series have smaller gaps in power levels than Kirin and Goku’s yet the character can easily speedblitz and curbstomp the opposing character with little effort as seen with Cui and Vegeta,Dorida vs Vegeta and Zarbon vs Vegeta. Either way, this dispels the myth Goku in Dragon Ball is Faster than the speed of light.
Another commonly used argument of FTL Goku and Dragon Ball characters is the argument Goku can dodge LAZERS .Note this is by far the dumbest argument i’ve heard from DBZtards on the topic of speed.
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By this logic, Bleach characters around the rank of Vice Captains are Faster than Light because they dodged Ceros which are laser like attacks.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/TxQReRZVpwU
Or One Piece characters are FTL because One Piece characters can dodge Paascfista lasers which makes them FTL.
Lasers =/=speed of light. The only way a Laser would be Light speed is if that laser has the proprieties of pure light. Given the lasers fired at Goku come from tech that is nowhere close to that producing light speed ability, it’s safe to say that laser isn’t FTL and that DBZtards are grasping for straws.
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Another argument bought up to the defense of the Light speed ability is the fact that Goku caught a dragonball in Mid Air easily and DBZtards claim each Dragon Ball was moving at 1/7th the speed of light. Nevermind the fact that claim is duibous on it’s own given nothing proves Dragon Balls move anywhere near that fast and let’s foucs on the feat itself.
So even by the feat, it’s rubbish and comes nowhere close to actual lightspeed movement.
Hell in fact one can seriously argue whether DBZ characters are even FTL at all given Goku struggled to run across Snake Way which is only 1,000,000 km.
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Hell this argument is deeply contradicted by the fact that Cell Saga characters like Piccolo fused with Kami( Who are light years stronger than Kid Goku) were unable to evade Solar Flare. So by DBZtard logic, Kid Goku 22n Budokai>>>>>>Piccolo fused with Kami in speed
However to be fair, it’s established in DBZ that DBZ characters do have proven FTL reaction speed feats and can move FTl in short bursts much like a Cheetah can run very fast at short bursts across a short distance
However that’s DBZ characters past the Sayain Saga. No one in Dragon Ball ever moved faster than the speed of light. In fact Goku vs Mr Popo prove this in both the manga and anime.
At no point Kid Goku ever blitzed Mr Popo.If anything, Mr Popo was making short work of Post King Piccolo Arc Goku ( Who mind you got a Zenkai boost from drinking Ultra Divine Water)
Hell even Kid Goku admits moving at Lighting speeds alone is impossible for him.Funny how DBZtards who love to quote things miss this crucial quote debunking their wank, either out of sheer ignorance of their source material or out of sheer dishonesty.
In the anime especially, there was a filler proving Dragon Ball Goku was slower than Lightning as a kid
Another problem with this is the fact that Kid Goku lacks the energy needed to even move at Lightspeed. This is the reasons why .
Energy needed to survive moving at the speed of light bare minimum.
800.679888 j=180 lb/ man weight
81.64 kgx
7.337437273192e+17
733 743 727 319 200 000 joule = 175.368 959 68 megaton [explosive]
for a human to move at light speed constantly, they need to generate over 175 megatons of energy per second and withstand said energy. That is the equivalent of over 3 Tsar Bombas. To move at this speed, you would need skin destiny on par with that of a mountain.
There is also acceleration that is a factor as well. Gravity is not just constant gravitational pull but also the acceleration force of objects . A human can only survive up to 982 m/s² or 100 g’s of acceleration before dying or roughly 3 times the speed of sound. This means that a person needs to survive at least 314,642.85 g’s or nearly the surface gravity of a White Dwarf Star moving at the speed of light.
Star wars science light speed
Normal humans can withstand no more than 9 g’s, and even that for only a few seconds. When undergoing an acceleration of 9 g’s, your body feels nine times heavier than usual, blood rushes to the feet, and the heart can’t pump hard enough to bring this heavier blood to the brain. Your vision narrows to a tunnel, then goes black. If the acceleration doesn’t decrease, you will pass out and finally die. The Air Force’s F-16 can produce more g’s than the human body can survive. We’re forced to limit the acceleration of planes and spacecraft to a level humans can survive.
If we need to accelerate for extended periods, the level we can withstand is even lower. We can withstand 5 g’s for only two minutes, 3 g’s for only an hour. For the sake of argument, though, let’s try to tough it out at 3 g’s for a little longer. For Han to take off from Mos Eisley and accelerate at 3 g’s to half the speed of light would take him two and a half months—hardly the makings of an exciting movie. Even at 9 g’s, it would take him nineteen days to reach half the speed of light, though he’d be dead long before the ship reached that speed.
Going from zero to 314,642.85 g’s would require far more energy than merely 175 Megatons of TNT to withstand the force. To move at the speed of light safely and not be affected by gravity or vaporization energy, it would require an output and durability to withstand over 55 Teratons of TNT or over half the yield of the Chibuku comet that wiped out the dinosaur’s. In other words, unless that body can withstand that pressure, it would get destroyed.
Goku is not a human but a Sayian and naturally would be able to survive ten times the output of what humans can on average, however at the point of Dragon Ball, while his acceleration speed exceeded , his ability to withstand surface gravity was only that of a normal human born on earth.
There’s also the problem of King Piccolo. His strongest attack was only 95 Megatons of TNT at maximum power. Goku barely survived that force and had to be saved by Tien. King Piccolo Arc is the strongest Kid Goku can get. 175 Megatons at bare minimum alone would exceed Goku’s limits by nearly twice it’s level, in other words it would be physically impossible for Goku as a kid to move at the speed of light for it would easily drain his ki to life threatening levels and that’s not even factoring the acceleration energy either which would no doubt kill Kid Goku.
Now onto Teen Goku, can he potentially move at the speed of light. Remember that in order to achieve Light speed movement, you need a minimum of 175 Megatons per second and a maximum of 55 Teratons per second.Considering Goku’s power level in base is only 336 without weighted clothing at this time, there’s no way he can possibly obtain light speed movement.
After all as we established here, this is the tier of strength with regards to power levels
Human level: 5 to 8
Peak Human: 8 to 10
Wall level: 10 to 12.5
Small Building level:12.5 to 15
Building level: 25 to 50
City Block level: 50 to 100
Multi City Block level: 100 to 150
Town level : 150 to 180
Large Hill/ Small City Level : 180 to 210
Small Mountain/ Medium City level : 210 to 250
Mountain /Large City level : 250 to 275
Large Mountain/Small Island level: 270 to 300
Hamalaya Size Mountain/ Island Level : Power level 300 to 330
Multi Mountain level/ Large Island level: Power level 330 to 360
Small Mountain range/ Small Country Level: Power level 360 to 400
Mountain Range/Country Level : Power level 400 to 430
Large Mountain Range/ Large Country level: Power level 430 to 460
Small Continent level:Power level 460 to 500
Continent level: Power level 500 to 600
Large Continent level: Power level 600 to 700
Multi Continent level: Power level 700 to 800
Moon level : Power level 800 to 1,000
Small Planet Level: Power level 1,000 to 2,000
Planetary Core level(Low end planetbusting): Power level 2,000 to 10,000
Planet level: 10,000 to 100,000
Goku with a power level of 336 is only Large Island level+ at best without weighted clothing.However when using his Super Kamehameha Wave, his power level peaks at 910 given his Kamehameha wave is more or less as powerful as the one Roshi used making him Moon level at best, however as seen with that, he can’t casually sustain over 55 Teratons of energy at once within this point of battle. To do so ,it would still kill Goku.At best he’s Sub Relativistic in Dragon Ball EoS and EoS DB Goku>Kid Goku.
Only in the Raditz and Sayain Saga’s does Light speed ability become possible given that characters at this point are casually county level with both Goku and Piccolo being in the 400’s with weighted clothing off.
However Raditz who is shown to be their superior and actually dodged an attack that is arguably Lightspeed ( Given a weaker and slower Ki Blast can hit the moon in seconds by the same character). Raditz with a power level of 1,200 would be able to sustain the pressure of moving at lightspeed with no problem,especially given Planet Vegeta’s surface gravity is 10 times greater than Earth’s.
12)Garlic Jr is Star level +
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`Another common argument thrown around by DBZtards is Garlic Jr’s Dead Zone which is non canon but let’s humor this anyways. People compare the Dead Zone to an actual black hole, while it does function similar to a black hole, it’s nowhere near as powerful.
Dead Zone (Void)
First of all, it’s not a Black Hole, it’s a void or dimensional rip.Second the proprietress of said void are unknown and third,considering the power levels of the movie and filler arc in general are far below that needed.
Note that even a 1 meter blackhole would require immense energy amounts of energy to do so. A one meter wide Black hole would have 56 times the mass of Earth alone or 334.521,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg .
3.006530201528448e+42 joule = 7.1857796404e+26 megaton [explosive]
Just to generate a 1 meter wide Black hole would require 718.578 Tenatons of TNT or 4.3 times the GBE of the sun.In other words, you would need a power level as high as Super Vegeta within the Cell Saga just to create a 1 meter Blackhole.
We also established that the gravity of an actual black-hole is black-hole has up to 1.14 Quadrillion G’s. That is over 3,800 times the gravity of a Neutron Star and that the acceleration gravity of the speed of light is 314,642.85 g’s. We also established that in other to escape a black hole even a meter wide, you would need over 19.728 Tenakilotons of force per second at the very least and that’s not even counting adjustment to Gravity. The 2 escape velocity speed is 3.58692849e+20 g’s or 1.14 Quadrillion C to physically escape any blackhole with raw speed alone.
Given Garlic j’s “Blackhole “was over 2 meters wide at it’s largest point, it should exceed even the power level of Super Vegeta,however given he was defeated by Gohan Twice, the former having a power level of 1,500 and the filler having a power level of 1,500,000 with the Makyo Star, it’s clear that this blackhole is nowhere close to the real deal.
Another good example of this is the fact that this is based on Raditz Saga power levels.Considering that you need to be FTL to escape a blackhole and Goku and Piccolo couldn’t do that here, it’s clear that none of them are as powerful as one needs to be to resist the Blackhole..For one Goku can’t even withstand 10G’s at this point let alone a blackhole that has 3800 times the surface gravity of a Neutron Star, something that would take even SSJG Goku 9 years to fully adapt to that level of gravity
Contrast that with the blackhole in Sailor Moon R in which it behaved much more like a blackhole and actually was said to have the proprietress of one.
This is also not contradicted by powerscaling or previous feats given end of Season 1 had Sailor Moon purify the sun and their new powers in R season vastly surpass that of when they fought Queen Berly.
Given Garclic Jr is barely stronger than Third Form Fireza at his best and as strong as Radtiz at his weakest, it’s easy to debunk this feat as just something that isn’t going to be
11)Bojack is Quntillions of times faster than Light because he traveled a Galaxy without a spaceship
This is an argument used by DBZtards like SSJRYU, infamous DBZtard/Superman hater on Youtube who thinks SSJ3 Goku can beat Pre Crisis Superman. First of all, a Galaxy is only 100,000 light years long,second Sailor Moon crossed an entire Galaxy in merely seconds, which vastly outpaces Bojacks speed feat and third Bojack is non canon.
But let’s take a minute to humor this feat shall we. As we all know, Manga Sailor Moon top tiers can casually move at 26,000 light years per second or around 820,000,000,000 times the speed of light and at maximum can cross a Galaxy ten times over in a second. If Bojack crossed a whole Galaxy without a spaceship and took him a full month, this makes Bojack 5,184,000 times slower than Sailor Moon characters. In other worlds,nowhere near Quntillions of times the speed of light.
To be at the Quntillions of times the speed of light,you need to be moving cross the size of the Observable Universe in a second. No DBZ character moves anywhere near this fast.Not even Beerus and Whis. In fact the travel speed with Bojack is only 158179.012345679 c at best or 158,179 times the speed of light which is unimpressive by Cell Saga standards.
10)Fireza/Cooler and King Cold are Star level+(OUTDATED)
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This is easily one of the most ridiculous claims i’ve seen from DBZtards regarding this series is the claim Fireza can blow up the sun because “Supernova named attack=Supernovas”.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/WWomZ3DX6h8
This is mainly brought up by hardcore DBZtards like SSJRyu who use false, misleading numbers to claim that Fireza is Supernova level because his attack is called “Supernova”.His argument is that the attack in on par with a Supernova because the Cooler movie shows the blast of the attack stretching out to another planet.
One the Cooler movie is non canon and two, Fireza is nowhere near Supernova level in Final Form 100% let alone base form.Thrid just because an explosion was seen from one planet, doesn’t mean it’s that of a Supernova.
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I’m guessing by this logic, Celestial King from Fairy Tail is Galaxy level because he has an attack that’s called Galaxia Blade and Fairy Tail= DBZ by this dumbass logic.
As for the whole density of Vegeta, you have no proof of it even being Star level and again it’s something you’re pulling straight out of your own ass. Final Form Fireza barely leveled Namek given he held back too much power and Namek is proven to be much larger than Planet Vegeta which is just a Earth sized planet with 10 G’s. A Earth Size Planet with 10G’s would require about 2.240E+34 Joules of TNT which is only about 100 times the minimum power of 2×1032 J or 53.7 Zeattons of TNT so still not close to Star level,not even remotely close to Star level. Hell even destroying the planet the Size of Jupiter would still only produce/1,000th the power needed to bust even a Small Star level alone the Sun. So once again you’re a moron.
Keep in mind Fireza barely leveled Namek, he can’t possibly Star bust, hell Broly who is leagues above Fireza was killed by the Sun, you seriously think Fireza is a Star level threat ?
Fireza produces nowhere near an actual Supernova, he barely leveled Namek. Only Cell level characters and above can create Supernovas and Cell>>>>>>>>>>Namek Saga Fireza, nice try there dumbass. Planet Vegeta is show no different in size from Earth but only with 10 times normal gravity. .At best that yield of force is 5.35 Yottatons, only . To put that into context, Uranus, the bare minimum yield for Large Planet level busting is 2.7 yottatons. That’s only a 2 times difference. Nowhere near Supernova level !
An average Supernova would have the yeild of 23.9 Tenakilotons, or over 44,672,897.12 times the force base Fireza has ever shown. In fact Even Fireza’s Final Form at full power in the Namek Saga comes nowhere close to that yield. At best Fireza is in the High Yottatons to Low Ninatons, nowhere near Star level.
What about Cooler you ask ? Surely he’s Star level! He claimed that he can destroy the sun right ?Nope, he stated he’s going to blackout the sun, not destroy it. Also if Goku blew up the sun in the movie, there would be no Earth or Inner planets. Also Cooler is only 470,000,000, that’s only 3.9 times stronger than what Fireza can do which is only at best 1.762 Nina Foe.Nowhere near Star level. Also i doubt a Kamehameha wave would sustain the sun, at best Goku only briefly blocked out the sun. There is no way Goku with a power level of 750,000,000 max in that movie is in the same league as Cell.
No, Frieza is a star buster because Goku said so, and Frieza at 50% form took the spirit bomb which had the energy of multiple planets and stars, which he took. It was even said that Frieza was a universal threat, obviously not 1 shot but planet and star.
Spirit Bomb only took small parts of energy from multiple planets and stars, doesn’t make it equivalent to a Star level attack. The Spirit Bomb used to kill Buu who was far stronger than Fireza only used energy from Earth unless you are saying Fireza> Kid Buu because Buu was killed by a spirit bomb that only had Earth’s power whereas Fireza survived a “Solar System level” Spirit Bomb.See how inconsistent your argument is to the facts.
Large planet level lol that is pretty funny, considering planet vegeta is itself requires more power to destroy then any planet thanks to its gravity and density.
Planet Vegeta at most is barely in the Large Planet range of busting and given Fireza in a much stronger form had trouble busting Namek, a planet with normal gravity, that kinda discredits Fireza’s power by a large amount. At most the destruction of Planet Vegeta would be 2.240E+37 Joules and that’s only if you can prove it’s not only 10 times denser than Earth and have 10 times the Gravity but has over 10 times Earth’s size. That’s still not even 1/10,000th the power to bust the Sun. The GBE of the Sun is 6.9×1041 J so even at the most liberal size of Planet Vegeta which is 10 earths, it’s still nowhere close to Star Busting.
Goku powering up against ginyu is solar system level because he lights up a solar system -.-
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Since when did Goku light up a Solar System ? He didn’t even do that with his battle with Cell let alone Ginyu.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/tfISB_qzxWU
As for Goku not dying from the sun, he wasn’t thrown into the surface of the sun like Broly and Cooler, he narrowly escaped just being a few miles close to the sun.
Stick tune for part 2 of the DBZtard pwnage
9) Frieza is actually Multi Solar System level + to Galaxy level,maybe Universe level even
https://www.youtube.com/embed/aIuzEygPPdo
Yep just when you think DBZtards can’t get any stupider, SSJRyu proves us wrong by trying to claim Frieza can survive Multi Solar System level attacks. He claims that the explosion on Namek engulfed a portion of a galaxy because the anime overscaled the explosion.
Yeah that’s some powerful levels of stupid right there.If the explosion on Namek blew up part of the Galaxy, why was there still the Namekian Solar System ? Talk about grasping for straws and desperately attempting to inflate the power levels of DBZ.Even a novice in DBZ would know that Fireza being a Muilt Solar System buster is categorically bullshit.
DBZ Sun
The suns on Namek were not destroyed by the blast that blew up Namek so nice try there SSJRyu.However it’s not uncommon for DBZtards to claim Fireza is Galaxy level before Revival of F as DBZtards have shown their ability to lie and misinterpret anything in DBZ to push their agenda.
Tards claim Fireza is even Universe level because he’s feared by king Kai and the Kais who rule galaxies and according to DBZtards, ruling something means you can destroy it with our bare hands. I mean Obama has the power to destroy the world with nukes, which means he can easily city bust with a punch right ?
8)DBZ Galaxies> Real World Galaxies
Another common DBZtard argument is the idea that DBZ galaxies are much bigger than our own because there are 4 of them which make up the observable Universe in DBZ
The Living World is also called the Present World. To be frank, it means the vast universe. This universe is divided into four galaxies; other than that, it is known that there is a chaotic place called the Devil Realm somewhere in the universe. The sections known as the East-West-North-South Galaxies only utilize Kami as administration units, and the life forms who reside in the Living World are able to freely travel the galaxies. Of course, that is supposing they have the technology…
Incidentally, Earth, where SON Goku and his friends live, exists in the North Galaxy. The North Galaxy seems to have some of the most beautiful planets.
A gathering of local planets in the universe. Planets gather and form a nebula, and beyond that, a collection of gathered nebulae is called a galaxy. The four Kaiou who rule over the east, west, south, and north [sections] of the universe actually govern these galaxies. Because the Kami in the Heavenly Realm and the Kaiou supervise the galaxies that exist infinitely in all the universe, the sections known as the East, West, South, and North Galaxies are denominations that came into use through their duty.
infinite space housing all existing celestial bodies in the lower world . With the kingdom of demons , that’s part of the great world in Dragon Ball. The Universe is in the hereafter and it is firm hermetiquent walls or are severe the mysterious drawings. On the inside of the Universe, four galaxies. Each of these galaxies is under the charge of a god. Earth is in the solar system in the galaxy North. There is a policy of the Universe. But she had no power against a Saiyan and Frieza.
Dragon Ball Z: The Anime Adventure Game describes each galaxy to be around the size of a normal one.
In fact, DBZtards shoot themselves in the foot with this argument. if what is said is true, then the DBZverse is much smaller than our Universe.
However this claim contradicts the fact that Beerus and Whis have moved through several unnamed Galaxies in DBZ, i take the “4 Galaxies ” only claim with a grain of salt given that claim is just contradictory and has shaking grounds to begin with,especially given the best thing support this claim is a map drawn massively out of scale.
In fact this calc here further throw’s this claim out of wack here.
It took Whis roughly 1 minute to fly the same distance, with his staff mind you. Here are the relevant scans:
If it took Whis 1 minute to cross the distance and Beerus 1 minute 20 then we can easily find Beerus’ speed since we have Whis’ speed already. And since we have concrete, canon time frames there should be no issue with this whatsoever. The very fact that Beerus is impatient and gave Whis a strict time frame means it is also fair to assume Whis was moving at his highest possible speed.
Pretty much all grounds covered, right?
60 seconds = 4,522,092,665 c
80 seconds = x
4,522,092,665*(60/80) = x
80 seconds = 3,391,569,498 c (as Beerus took 1/3rd more time. There is an inverse relationship)
3 billion times faster than the speed of light. Incontestable. However, it does sort of make sense and does not necessarily contradict anything. At no point did it mention Beerus needed Whis to travel to Kaio’s planet, he’s just extremely lazy so it’d make sense he wouldn’t want to fly there himself. Plus it would no doubt get tiring. It also sort of alludes to the fact that Whis’ staff itself is probably fueled by Whis’ own ki, because it isn’t exactly much faster than Beerus’ own movement speed.
Using Beerus’ Nebula (Non-Visible)
Quote:
Willyvereb wrote:
If I assume Beers’ nebula is about 20 light years wide which is reasonable then it needs to be circa 37,000 to 370,000 light years away to be invisible.
This only a lazy calc assuming 35 degrees (camera visuals), 1000 pixel picture height and 1 or 0.1 pixel apparent size of the unseen nebula.
Anyways, with this if Whis traveled this under a minute that’d roughly require 16 to 160 billion times FTL speed.
Which makes Beers about 12 to 120 billion times FTL.
So yeah, we actually no longer need that BoG feat at all.
If anything I like this more for the same reason others mentioned.
Whether canonical or not the use of the map was a bit iffy with the old calc.
A little addition from Will. The BoG numbers don’t matter too much, the very fact that his Nebula clearly isn’t visible means at a bare minimum Beerus crossed thousands of light years in minutes for fun.
Either way, DBZtards attempts to use this scale in an attempt to radically overplay the power level of characters or claim that DBZ characters are much stronger than they actually are. They try to have it both ways and try to claim DBZverse is only 4 Galaxies yet try to claim that their Universe in the size of our own. Either it’s one or the other, pick one.
7)Beerus is a Universe buster(Massively OUTDATED)
Another common fallacy amongst DBZtards is the reliance on Kaioshin Kai as an argument for Beerus being a Universe buster.This is largely done in a disingenuous attempt to wank DBZ and out them on par with Marvel and DC top tiers if not above because Deepry derrpy, the map says so right?
Where do we begin with this argument here? Notice how everytime DBZtards bring up this argument, it’s always using the DBZ map that’s clearly not drawn to scale.
This shows the immense dishonesty of DBZtards. Going by the size of the Kasohin realm here, it’s clear it’s nowhere near the size of the Observable Universe,After all it’s smaller than the sun in the same scaling as everything else.
Yeah, right off the bat, the problems are pretty fucking obvious. The Observable Universe is 46 Billion Light years in Radius and 92 Billion Light Years in Diameter. That is the big line that’s 433 Pixels long. Right off the bat, the distance between Namek and Earth’s distance is directly contradicted by the manga.
Distance between Namek and Earth by DBZtard 2’s logic (161 px) 34,207,852,193.99538 Light years
Yeah, this already is a major problem just going by my calc within the distance of Namek and Earth within my Superman vs Goku battle.
The most common argument from DBZ fans is the speed of the Sayain Space Pods and how King Kai was able to track the Sayain Space Pods to Earth used by Nappa and Vegeta, Bulma’s Namekian spaceship and the one Dr Brief build for Goku to travel to Namek in under one week. This would be the measurement of Goku’s true speed.
First the Sayain Space Pods used by Nappa and Vegeta.
According to Dragon Ball Wiki, Sayain Space Pods move at 3 light years per Hour. Doing some math into this,that means the Sayain Space pods are capable of moving over 26,841 times the speed of Light. If it took the Sayains less than a year to get to Earth, they were roughly 26,280 light years away from Earth when they heard about the Dragon Balls from Raditz prior to his death and Goku’s.
To determine the estimated distance between Namek and Earth, we need to see how fast the Namekian Space Ship is.
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The Namekian spaceship manged to travel from Earth to Jupiter within a spilt second. The distance between Earth and Jupiter is 365 million miles. The speed of the Nameikan spaceship is 1962.37xFTL or 1,962 times the speed of light, only 1/12th the speed of the Sayain Space Pods overall.
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It took Bulma , Kririn and Gohan 37 days to get to Namek using the same spaceship that can travel to Jupiter within a second.
365,000,000 miles per secondx60 secondsx60 minutesx24 hoursx37 days=1,166,832,000,000,000 miles traveled
1,166,832,000,000,000 miles traveled/ 6 Trillion miles=194.4 Light years
Going by the speed of a Sayain’s space pod, it would take only 2 days and from a space pod on the level to reach Namek.
Basically the DBZtard got a margin of error by 175,966,317.8703466 times.
The second problem is the size of Namek and Earth, another important aspect. Earth and Namek are 10 px in diameter’s each, which is a big problem itself. Namek is stated being much bigger than Earth and actually proven to be 3,5 times bigger than Earth within this calc here.
Third, the size of Earth itself. If the Earth itself is 10 px out of 433px, that means Earth is about the size and mass of 2.3% of the Universe as well as Namek. That means by DBZtard logic, Earth isn’t 12,500km’s in diameter, it’s 2 Billion light years or over 20,000 times larger than our Milky Way Galaxy, the same thing with Namek, Planet Vegeta and Planet Fireza. Already this attempt to get scaling from this map is look ridiculous.
Things however get really stupid when we take into account that King Kai’s planet is scaled the same size as Earth, meaning just going by the scale, King Kai’s planet is seemingly the size of planet Earth. Where do i even begin with this stupidity ? Oh right, showing a scale of the planet itself.
So apparently King Kai’s planet is the size of Earth? Ignoring all logic and assuming spirits of the dead grow to planetary sizes, going by the scaling here, that means Goku would’ve went from being 5’9″ to being 962.56km in height, in order words Goku would be half the size of the Moon. Yep going by DBZtard logic, people grow over 891641.5362731152 times larger in the other world than they do in real life.
And that’s just going by Conservative estimates of the actual size of the Earth. Now let’s see how absurd that looks in context to the attempt to scale Snake Way as being 1/4th of the Universe. That means by the DBZtards logic, Goku would not be 5’9″, he would actually be 153,153,153.1531532 light-years tall or essentially that according to DBZtard 2’s logic, Goku is 1,531 times the size of the Milky Way Galaxy. The immense levels of stupidity is just astonishing.
Another problem is that the DBZtard isn’t even correct with his own wank . The size of Snake Way going by this moronic math isn’t even 1/4th the size of the Universe, it’s actually 37.5% the length of the Universe or over 1/3th the Universe so yeah this guy isn’t even right with his own wank nor even bothered to scale the map himself and make sure his wank is even correct. In other words it’s over 34 Billion Light years long.
But the nail in the coffin and crowning achievement of fail with this argument is King Yemma’s Palace. Yeah apparently King Yemma’s Palace is 11 Billion Light Years long, over 1/3th the size of Snakeway, which is why Goku can see Snakeway from King Kai’s place, oh wait he couldn’t. Also did Goku grow another Billion Light years ?
Overall this is by far the most desperate attempt to wank DBZ to date. It’s like DBZtards realize how much they’re verse isn’t so invincible now that they’re resorting to pathetic, desperate tricks like this. Now time to hit where it hurts with this argument.
Assuming we take this bullshit argument to face value that Snake Way is 1/3th the size of the Universe and Goku crossed it within
3 hours, that would make Goku nearly 3 Billion times the speed of light within the Sayain Saga alone.
So yeah relying on a out of scale map to judge Destructive Capacity is flat out disingenuous and just another example of the great lengths DBZtards go to wank their own series. Beerus is nowhere near that powerful, deal with it.
Using their own Dragon Ball Wiki sources against them,while i don’t particularly rely on Danshezuu or Dragon Ball Wiki, they do and this alone refutes their wank.
Beerus usually uses his power to destroy planets, but he is strong enough to destroy entire solar systems with ease (as said by King Kai, who described Beerus’ energy as like a ‘freight train’) and can even destroy entire galaxies, although this is enough to severely tire him out.
Beerus> Every other villain within the entire DB series and not even Beerus is said to be a Universe buster, hell he gets tired out from busting Galaxies.There is over 200 Billion Galaxies within the Universe, if Beerus gets tired out from blowing up just a few Galaxies, he’s not even 1/100,000,000,000th as strong enough to Universe bust.
6) Omega Shenron is a Universe Buster(OUTDATED)
One strong argument made to wank DBZ characters is the argument that Omega Shenron can bust the Universe based on claims of Old Kai. Once again this is one of the reasons claims are the most unreliable forms of evidence is the fact people tend to misinterpret this to anything they want.
If Black Shenron ( The power of Sym Shernon )needed a year just to Galaxy bust, then there is no way in hell Omega Shenron is a Universe buster.Let’s look up the difference between the Black Star Dragon and Syn Shenron.
Black Smoke Shenron
Ultimate Shenron
According to Super Baby Vegeta 2, Ultimate Shenron’s power exceeds his own (with Super Baby Vegeta 2 being superior to the likes of Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Majuub).[3]
In the “Hero Mode” of Dragon Ball Z: Ultimate Tenkaichi, despite having been weakened by Piccolo and after being corrupted by negative energy; Ultimate Shenron possesses power above even Omega Shenron.
If we go by Ultimate Tenkaichi( Which is as canon as GT) Black Shenron or Ultimate Shenoron is easily stronger than Omgea Shnenron and even then, he’s only a Galaxy buster at best.
Not to mention he’s below Beerus who is Galaxy to Muilt Galaxy level at best.
5)Buuhan is a Universe Buster(OUTDATED)
Buuhan’s claim is proven as Hyperbole. First of all the only area shown affected is Earth so that alone disproves your argument. Second of all you’re argument is further disproved by the fact the reality collapsing doesn’t even affect the Other World like even base Janemba’s feat so that alone completely discredits your argument. At least Fusion reborn shown us parts of Hell and Heaven token over , this feat doesn’t shown anywhere but earth affected. Third Kid Buu struggled to blow up galaxies, in fact in took Kid Buu at full power over 3 years to blow up just one Galaxy. If you did the math correctly, at bare minimum, Buu would be 1,576,800 times below the level needed to Galaxy bust. At best Kid Buu is a Casual Multi Solar System buster to Nebula buster, he is nowhere near Universe busting. Buuhan at most is only 400 times the power level of Kid Buu which fails flat . 400 times Nebula buster level doesn’t even bring you 1/1,000th the power to level a Galaxy let alone Universe bust so it’s not supported by powerscaling either so the feat is entirely a dud and nothing more but Hyperbole from a desperate DBZtard.
Not to mention Beerus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buuhan so even assuming this Filler feat hold any weight, it’s negated by canon characters who are much stronger not even doing half of that power.
Yeah the dimensional walls argument isn’t a valid argument for Universe busting. Again by that argument, every power that involves dimensional wall breaking is a “Universe level feat”. I guess by your logic, Ichigo in Bleach is a Universal buster because his power is “At a higher dimension”.
Just because there is Multiple Universes, doesn’t mean there is a Multiverse buster, no one in DBZ remotely even comes close to Universe level let alone Multiverse tiers.
The My Little Pony has confirmed Multiverses both in the comics and TV series, does that make them suddenly Multiverse ? Well they’re at least stronger than most of DBZ up until BoG or GT going by my last post relating to DBZ and MLP at the very least.
. AT stated that Kai Planets, Afterlife and Mortal world are all part of one Universe. if Buuhan was a threat to the entire Universe, there would be dimensional walls tearing within other planets within the mortal half of the Universe like Namek and tears throughout the Afterlife and each of the 4 Kai’s planets as well as the Kaioshin realm, since Buuhan’s wave only seems to affect Earth and it’s backed by powerscaling and stronger villains like Bills showed nowhere near that level of claimed hype, the feat is entirely dismissed as Hyperbole.
4)Janemba is a Universe buster
One of the most over used arguments within DBZ fandom is that Janemba can destroy the Universe because he took up the eternity of the Afterlife and Earth.This is a problem for many reasons.
The Afterlife going by scaling is much smaller than the Observable Universe.Case and point, using the same map DBZtards love to scale things from, Snakeway takes up 1/4 the size of the Afterlife.Afterlife. Snakeway is only 1,000,000 km long so the Afterlife is only 4,000,000 km wide . 4,000,000 km isn’t even 1/1,000,000th of a light year let alone 92 Billion Light Years wide.
Another problem is that the reality warping didn’t even affect all the 4 Kai planets and the Supreme kai planet . If Janemba was Universe level, why was the only mortal world planet affected was Earth ? Noi DBZtard can even prove that Namek in the mortal world was affected, nor the other 3 Kai planets or the Supreme Kai world which would’ve at least lended credibility it can affect the Universe.
Alot of DBZtards like to claim just because busted a dimension, he must be Universe level. By this logic Ichigo is Universe buster because he shattered a Kido that crushes people with the ” gravity of a black hole” and a power that “transcends space and time”. Yeah when i say it that way , you would think i sound like a dumbass right ? Well that’s exactly how they sound by bringing up this argument. Here’s a typical DBZtard trying to defend this argument.
This is getting boring, No they are not 1 universe, they are separate. Really keep up, and look where the check in station is, and look what happened when janemba warped it. The After life is the cosmos, The Mortal place is the Universe. 2 Different places, and Namek as i said millions of times is in the mortal world, not the after life. So time again and again you keep getting proven wrong.
Sorry buddy but Heaven and Hell never count as their own verse in fiction, nice try. Also if it was a Multiverse, Toryiama would’ve called it the DBZ Multiverse, not the DBZ Universe and isn’t it you who go by author statements? It’s funny when you’re backed to a corner, you suddenly want to ignore what Toyriama says and play with definitions to desperately put forward you’re own agenda. AT counted Hell, Heaven and the Kai world as one Universe. It’s confirmed by the fact that the map is called the DBZ Universe, not the DBZ Multiverse and further confirmed by Battle of Gods in which this is just one of 12 Universes similar to this own. In other words you’re a moron desperate to make DBZ stronger than it actually is.
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3) Variety of DBZ fanboy arugments
Here is some of the most retarded arguments from Fanboys that are often used to excuse the lack of feats from their own series, this is a collection of arguments and tactics DBZtards do to apologize for their lack of feats.
A)Downplaying feats from opposing verse while wanking DBZ
Another constant argument from DBZtards is they’re sheer hypocrisy when it comes to selecting feats and intentionally ignoring opposing verses feat because they deem it to be “Too comical”.The irony and hypocrisy is strong with this one.
Ex: “The Living tribunal cant planet bust because we dont see him doing it.”
1. Handbook stated he can aka Authors
2. He made a sun go supernova and solar system busted
3. He planet busted during Golden Age Dr.Strange comics
They will say “You dont have the feats.” Because they butthurt they cant prove goku planet busting.
Why is it that this debate is revived time and again? Superman is utterly no match for *any* of the Dragonball characters beyond Nappa or Ginyu, depending on the incarnation. All “evidence” that is brought forward (such as Superman sneezing away a galaxy or something akin to that) is 1) Comical and meant humorously, which means that it does not count, 2) was only observed one isolated time only, as Superman is constantly re-incarnated depending on the writer and 3) is most certainly not on the power scale of Dragonball characters. Virus, the God of Destruction, Goku, Freeza, Cell… all of them where strong enough to destroy the entire Universe. (That was stated in the Japanese original. Quite from Kaiou: “Even the gods fear Freeza. Now that he has transformed, he is strong enough to destroy the entire Universe.”.) DraculaCronqvist (talk) 23:19, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
Since we want to play this game , we can very easily apply the same downplaying logic to DBZ with ease right ?
1) Cell blowing up the Solar System is comical,especially given that he barely blew up a building sized Planet and no character aside from Fireza and Buu can planet bust and Beerus stated that Goku in base was inferior to Namek Saga Fireza and Kid Buu is 10 times planet level, therefore no one is above planet level in DBZ.
2)Goku’s speed feats are inconsistent to each other as well as DBZ in general.
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Goku as a kid can easily move at hypersonic speeds and crossed the world in the Martial Arts tournament in less than a day swimming across the world .
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Yet Goku at a much older and stronger state struggles to cross Snakeway in Six Months .There’s also the varying inconsistencies in speed in general in DBZ.
3)This doesn’t even need downplaying, it’s flat out bullshit that any DBZ character can destroy the Universe and it’s purely Hyperbole,especially given Beerus and Whis didn’t fear Fireza at all and that’s even at his strongest Golden form.Hell since we’re being dicks here, Fireza’s best feat in Revival of F was mere planet busting.
Goku is not planet level because he never busted a planet and needs SSJ3 just to blow up a Building sized planetiod
Fireza is barely planet level because he barely busted Namek
Cell isn’t Solar System level because he was killed by an attack that didn’t even blow up a planet.
Goku was killed by a Building sized explosion as a SSJ
Kid Buu is only 10 times planet level
GT Goku can barely lift building
Goku can only lift 40 tons
Goku took 3 weeks to get use to 10G’s
,
B) Character a lost to Character B therefore Goku wins
Another common argument from DBZtards is the argument that Character A lost to Character B and intentionally low ball or downplay character B to make character A look weaker or look for a earlier, weaker villain in an attempt to downplay opposing characters strength while wanking Goku or any DBZ character.
This is done often against Superman vs battles with DBZ. DBZtard brings up that Wonder Woman beat him once or Doomsday beat him once and hence if they can do it, so can Goku. This is completely ignoring the fact Wonder Woman and Doomsday have feats on par with Superman and Superman’s feats are enough to crush Goku badly.
C) Goku can beat character x because he knows Martial Arts.
Another common argument from DBZtards is character A doesn’t know martial arts or character A can be hurt by martial artists ,therefore can be easily defeated by Goku.
Pre-crisis Karate Kid can hurt Pre-crisis Superman So don’t look down on Goku !
Pre-crisis Superman was beaten by Pre-crisis Karate Kid ! And he HURT that Superman with Karate .Compare to that , Goku is a trained Martial Artist with his own Super strength & Super Speed , therefore he doesn’t need planet lifting strength to fight Superman.
This is ironically where DBZtards own logic fail spectacularly against them.Ignoring that Pre Crisis is non canon now and rectoned so you can’t apply those feats to Post and New 52 Superman, you seem to intentionally ignore the fact that Pre Crisis Superman would curbstomp Goku.
Pre Crisis Superman tanked a Big Bang, for Karate Kid to hurt him, going by powerscaling, he would need to punch at the force at least stronger than the Big Bang which means going by DBZtard logic, he’s Universe level + and can rape Goku badly.
Also there’s his speed which going by this is 63,072,000,000,000,000,000,000,000c or 63.072 Sepltion times the speed of light, Karate Kid by powerscaling would be this fast, more than enough to blitz Goku over Trillions of times in a second.
So ironically, you just further show not only how dishonest you are but how easily your argument can be turned against you and against your downplaying agenda.
Also this notion a character needs to be a Martial Artist just to be on par with Goku utterly fails largely due to the fact ,Fireza and Majin Buu, two of Goku’s toughest villains lacked any Marital Arts skills and Gohan around the time of the Cell Games greatly surpassed Goku at that time despite not having anywhere near the skills of Goku. Not to mention Goku has lost to Vegeta twice( Technically when he tuned into a giant ape and when he became Majin) despite Vegeta having less skill than him, lost to Tien who was around the same skill level and lost to Roshi who was superior to him in skill at the time.
Either way this argument fails, the only way this would work as an argument is if Goku or any DBZ character were around the same level as said other character.
D) That doesn’t count, character a needs(Insert power here) just to beat Goku/DBZ characters
One of the most common arguments DBZtards use is the argument that character A needs a power up to beat Goku.This is largely said by butthurt DBZtards who can’t admit that character A can either hold their own with Goku or can curbstomp Goku and have to try to downplay the opposing character in order to win.
For example here is a common DBZtard argument.
Also , Superman needs Sun for his power so if any DBZ character blow up the Sun then Superman is finished.
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That’s ignoring the fact Superman has flown through a Red Sun.
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Tanked a nuke even under Kyrponite
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Lifted the mass of Earth for 7 days strength while drained from the sun
Tanked a earth shattering fall from space
And absorbed Anti Sunlight that can obliterate a whole Galaxy.
This is just typical downplaying by DBZtards who have no real argument.Except has has lifted the mass of an entire planet without Solar Radiation so so much for you claim he can’t lift a normal human.
As for Goku , If he realize Superman get his Power from the Sun then all he has to do is grad Superman and use Instate Transmission to go on a planet without any Sun therefore cutting off his Power source and make it a fair fight where Superman must use his remaining Solar energy to fight Goku.
And how is Goku going to do just that ? You’r aware Superman would still get power from other stars unless it’s a Red Sun.
However I like to remind all of you that the Sun didn’t prevent Superman’s death by Doomsday .
And ? This is a valid argument how ?.Doomsday overwhelmed a full powered Superman, something Goku would never do.
Also Pre-crisis Superman lose his power on a environment similar to Kyptron. Base Vegeta train user 300 gravity to become a Super Saiyan however Super Saiyan Seem to immune from any gravitational field.
This is possibly one of the dumbest arguments you ever said. Krypton has 1,000 times Earth’s gravity, Vegeta who only trained up to 500 times that gravity would struggle against that gravity.Also it was the red sun that negated his powers, not gravity retard.
Also that’s possibly the dumbest thing you’ve said. Unless Sayains can casually withstand the gravity of a Neutron Star or Black holes, that argument holds no weight.It’s just you being a retard who claims shit without fact checking.
At the end , Superman is nothing more then a cheater who need the Sun to power him up ! Cut him from the Sun and he weaker then a regular human
Oh noes, man this example couldn’t sound anymore like butthurt. If anything you sound just as arrogant and stupid as King Cold who thinks that Trunks couldn’t of killed Fireza without his sword.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/SzT1UYoi70k
Superman wouldn’t need the sun to beat Goku, you’re just pathetic.Honestly DBZtards are some of the biggest,whiniest babies on the internet.
E)GOKU WOULD WIN CUS SAIYANS ARE WAYYYYYY STRONGER THAN HUMANS WITH SUPERPOWERS.
Yep this is a common argument by DBZtards.They assume because Goku is Sayain, he’s automatically superior to all humans in fiction.This is beyond a stupid argument as you can get really and shows the immense stupidity of DBZtards.
For example, Captain America from Marvel is Human yet can match Odin Force Thor and Hulk in combat due to his immense skill and lethal martial arts.Hulk and Thor easily outmatch any DBZ characters.
Ben 10 , a human has the powers of many aliens ,can steal Sayain powers and has a near Omnipotent alien that would casually solo DBZ.
Then there are the Green Lanterns in general who outclass anything in DBZ at their full power given they’re powers range from casual Solar System level to Universe level+
Kamjou Tomua,Flamma of the Right and top tiers of To Aru Index would also solo DBZ given they’re on par with Galaxy to Universe level Archangels.
Captain Marvel who is Human would also solo DBZ.
I can go about how arrogant this sounds to think just because humans can’t match Goku in his universe, he can beat any other human in fiction.
E) Combat Speed Fallacy
The most often used argument by DBZtards when based to a corner is the good ol Combat Speed Fallacy.The Combat Speed Fallacy is a dishonest and flawed argument used by DBZtards . The essence of the argument relies on trying to categorize every speed feat of the other side as “travel speed”, “movement speed” or some other kind “non-combat speed”. They will then proceed to claim all of those speed feats don’t count and their favored character would speedblitz the opposition. This is fallacious for many reasons.
First of all, said wankers never give a consistent definition of “combat speed”. Realistically, to fight at a certain speed requires no more than the following:
– The ability to move at that speed
– The ability to perceive an opponent moving at that speed
– The ability to react at that speed
So logically, demonstrating “travel speed” feats in combination with sensory and reaction/thought speed feats should be sufficient to establish a character’s “combat speed”. However, the trolls who use this argument almost never accept this, instead trying to define “combat speed” as something that can only be measured in combat, which is retarded.
So logically, demonstrating “travel speed” feats in combination with sensory and reaction/thought speed feats should be sufficient to establish a character’s “combat speed”. However, the trolls who use this argument almost never accept this, instead trying to define “combat speed” as something that can only be measured in combat, which is retarded.
Some of them then take this even farther, claiming that fights that cover large distances don’t count as combat speed, but travel speed, as the combatants were traveling while fighting. A notable example of this kind of sophistry was when Phenomenol claimed that the instance where Wally West fought Zoom II all across the Earth multiple times in less than a second didn’t count as combat speed, despite the fact that they were exchanging punches and attacks the whole time. Hilariously, he then went on to claim that Goku using IT to arrive at the island where Cell was fighting and saving his friends, then IT’ing back out before Cell could attack him, did count as combat speed, despite the fact that no actual combat occurred.
Another problem with the “combat only” definition of combat speed is that in a fight that does not cover significant distances, there is usually no indication of the actual speed the fighters are moving at. Barring narration saying something like “X moves his fists at the speed of light”, “Y throws 1000 punches per second”, or “Z strikes in less than a nanosecond”, a visual depiction of a fight (especially in sequential art) is almost always unquantifiable. Further irony arrives from the fact that such narrations are the kind you would most likely find in a western comic book, as opposed to a manga or anime, which is the side the users of this fallacy usually support. This is why most calculations done for character speeds are based on feats against known variables (i.e. bullets or things falling due to gravity), not fights.
One might then wonder how the supporters of this argument quantify the “combat speed” of their favored characters. There are usually two tactics they use for this:
– They don’t bother to quantify it at all, they just say it must be super fast because it’s drawn with a lot of blurry lines and afterimages or the fact that background characters can’t see the fight happening. When shown similar examples of blurry drawings, afterimages, and disappearing from sight from their opposition, they simply dismiss it with a line like “So what, Kid Goku was doing that at the beginning of Dragon Ball”
– They actually use (or attempt to use) quantifiable speed feats to determine the speed of their characters, and then assume they are using their absolute maximum speed during combat, while if a comic debater makes the same argument they ask him to prove the character was fighting at the same speed of his other feats.
As you can see, this whole line of reasoning is based on blatant hypocrisy and double standards.
But I’m just getting started:
There are many times when a character’s “travel speed” feats apply equally for determining their “combat speed”. Situations where characters are fighting while traveling have already been mentioned, but another scenario is where they are traveling through an area filled with obstacles. Obviously if they could not perceive and react at the speeds they travel at, they would be bumping into things all the time. Any character that runs around a planet or other large distance on the surface of a planet or moon should be given “combat speed” equivalent to their travel speed by default, due to having to see and dodge all of the obstacles in their way. Wankers who use this fallacy never accept this, though.
Another way for a character with only high demonstrated “travel speed” to be considered high in “combat speed” is that character’s senses. Heralds of Galactus, for example, are often stated and shown to sense things at FTL speeds over vast distances, often described in terms like “being able to sense a single dust mote from another galaxy”. Obviously a character with senses on this level will have no problem detecting and countering an opponent attacking at comparable speed to their own.
Even if we were to accept that a character can’t perceive or react anywhere near as fast as they can physically move (and this is rarely true of any characters in fiction), the character with the faster movement speed still has the advantage. This can be demonstrated as follows:
Say Character A has a movement speed and combat speed of 1,000, and Character B has a movement speed of 1,000,000 but a combat speed of only 100. There are still many winning strategies for Character B, for example, bumrushing Character A at maximum speed. If Character A can’t get out of the way in time, then he’s dead (assuming Character B has the power to hurt him). Even if Character A manages to dodge, Character B can simply continue on his path until he has reached a safe distance from Character A, then re-aim and try again. Eventually he’s bound to land a hit.
Another strategy would be attempting to grab one of Character A’s limbs, this might take a while but once it is done, Character B can use his superior speed to take Character A with him into a dangerous place (outer space, a star, etc.). If the speed is high enough, Character B might even be able to rip off Character A’s limb. In addition, a character that has one of more of their limbs immobilized cannot escape or dodge effectively, thus negating the “combat speed” difference.
2)Brolywank
A) Broly is a Galaxy Buster
This is one of the best examples of DBZtard stupidity and dishonesty and clear examples of their fanboyism i’ve ever seen from them. This fails for a variety of reasons as i’ve shown before in the past whenever this argument is brought up.
One of the most infamous examples of DBZtardism is the infamous Brolywankers and Brolytards.They are perhaps the dumbest DBZ fanboys in existence, especially since they use some of the dumbest arguments ever to wank a character who is just Mid Tier at best in DBZ.
1)Subs debunk the myth of Broly’s Galaxy busting
The Japanese subs never stated he busted a Galaxy but attacked one.This can be further shown by the fact that the entire film takes place in the very South Galaxy Broly “destroyed”
2) Cell is much stronger than Broly and yet can’t come close to Galaxy busting
Given Broly is weaker than Prefect Cell and Prefect Cell is weaker than Super Prefect Cell who can blow up an entire Solar System with a full powered Kamehameha Wave. When you consider Broly at least is only Super Vegeta level in terms of power and up to Suppressed Prefect Cell at best.best. Broly is easily 100 times weaker than the power needed to blow up the Solar System going by powerscale alone.
3) Broly has shown no feat that puts him even close to that level of power
If we powerscaling Broly to Super Vegeta, going by Super Vegeta’s output i’ve shown on my former DA accounts post. Super Vegeta’s output is only 1.03 Tenakilotons . to equal the yield of a Supernova, you need 23.9 Tenakiliotons.Because Goku’s Kamehameha is later shown doing the same to Cell and it’s stated that Goku at this point was stronger than Vegeta by a significant margin. If Vegeta’s Final Flash did around 1.037 Tenakilotons, Goku’s was easily 10.37 Tenakiliotons while Cell who was only using half of his power fighting Goku can gather up as much as 20.74 Tenakilotons, which just falls shy of the 23.9 Tenakilotons needed to make a Supernova ,however given Super Prefect Cell is 10 times stronger than ever thanks to Zenkai therefore Super Prefect Cell would have up to 207.4 Tenakilotons or 8.67 Foe, the bare minimum needed to Solar System bust is 5.709 Foe. In other words, going by powerscaling and feats, Cell is basically a Solar System buster.
To put into context, in other to blow up the Milky Way Galaxy, you would need the energy equivalent of 100 Peta Foe or the force of 100 Quadrillion Supernovas.Broly’s power level doesn’t even match 1/20th of the power of a Supernova.
Likewise, Kid Buu himself needed 3 -5 years just to Galaxy bust. Kid Buu’s yield was 22 Mega Foe or well over 507 Million times the power output of Broly.Kid Buu’s power level and output are 1/19,200,000,000 th the output needed to blow up our Galaxy.
4)Broly would not survive even one Supernova
Going by Movie 10, Broly is nowhere near the durablity to surrive a Supernova level attack and this can be factored by the sheer engery of the Kamehaha Wave pushing Broly into the sun. Broly did not surrive this attack at all.
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Radius of the sun(At least 10%):347px(: 69,580 km )
Exploison that killed Broly:694 px ( 139,160 km)
Penerative Beam length: 93,000,000 miles + the diameter of the sun( 864,938 miles/1.392 million km)
Beam Length;10 feet
Attack speed: 20 seconds to the sun( 25 c )
Density of the sun:1.41 g/cm^3 mean density
Interior (center of the Sun)160 g/cm^3.
Cubic mile=4,168,181,825,000,000 cubic centimeters
5,877,136,373,250,000 g/cubic mile=12,953,794,078,135.33 lbs/cubic mile
5,888,088,217,334.242 Kilograms/cubic mile mean
668,151,854,449,275.7 Kilograms/cubic mile center
Volume potentially destroyed:45,668,726,400 Cubic miles
190,355,555,000 cubic kilometers
Depth of the Core: 25% the diameter and mass of the sun
Core volume destoryed: 11,417,181,600 cubic miles
47,588,888,750 cubic km
Surface volume destroyed:34,251,544,800 cubic miles
143,376,966,532.8 cubic km
Surface volume area destoryed:8.442162272789056e+23 kg
Core volume desotryed:3.179660426949277e+25 kg
Now for the engery using the E=mc² formula
E=x
M=8.442162272789056e+23 kg
3.179660426949277e+25 kg
c² = 89,875,517,800,000,000 mtr²/sec²
X=25 c
452.133 Tenatons Low end (2.75 times the GBE of the Sun)
17.015 Tenakilotons High End ( 103.63 times the GBE of the Sun )
Power of Bros Kamehama Wave :452.133 Tenatons Low end
17.015 Tenakilotons High End
5) Broly has nowhere near the speed or power needed to Galaxy bust overtime even if he only blew up Planets and Stars.
Note Broly in the movie only turned LSSJ within the fighting against the Z fighters, consider this factor when retarded fanboys claim “Broly can Galaxy bust in base form”. Broly in LSSJ at best is about as fast as Super Vegeta and mind you the alleged feat apparently happened in base state.
Given Vegeta’s max speed Cell Saga was 14.5 Million c as Super Vegeta, base Broly be be at least around 725,000 c. It’s faster than his spaceship, however, nowhere near fast enough to cover every square inch of a Galaxy. A Sayian Spaceship goes up to 3 light years per hour,that’s a speed of 12,101 times the speed of light. Note a Sayain Spaceship can cross 26,000 lightyears in a year.
The Milky Way is about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 km and 1.e+30sq km or 1 Nonillion sq km. In other words the Milky Way Galaxy is roughly 10,000,000,000 square Lightyears. Broly’s speed in base would take to cross the entire distance of the Milky Way Galaxy and that’s if Broly moves around the whole Galaxy at top speed without eating,sleeping or taking breaks nor the amount of time it would take to evade.
Given Broly has nowhere near the range or power to blow up a whole Galaxy in one shot, we have to determine how long it would take him to blow up each star in the Galaxy by covering over 1,557,851.23 light years per year in base which might seem alone and can cross a galaxy 10 times in a year, however that’s only in length, not square miles.
Let’s try at LSSJ this time. Broly can cross 31,157,024.6 sq lightyears per year . For Broly to potentially blow up every star in the Mlikly Way Galaxy, it is required for him to live over 320 years and fly around nonstop blowing stuff up nonstop without any energy being wasted and that’s at his maximum form. In base state, he needs to travel over 6,400 years nonstop.
Now this is where we get to the true debunking of this bullshit.Mind you our Sun doesn’t even compare to much larger stars within our Galaxy at all. Do i need to remind you how much power Broly has shown.
But the biggest star in the Universe is thought to be the monstrous VY Canis Majoris. This red hyper-giant star is thought to be 1,800 times the size of the Sun. This star would almost touch the orbit of Saturn if it were in our Solar System.
The most natural approach to me is to consider what would happen if, somehow, our Sun was magically and instantaneous swapped with VY Canis Majoris.
The result, in a word, is death. Complete and total death. Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, the million tiny worlds of the main asteroid belt, and even Jupiter – all gone. Jupiter, in fact, would find itself about 70 million miles below the surface of the star. It has a
GBE of VY Canis Majoris =3 Kilo FoeVY Canis Majoris.
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And then there are stars as immensely tiny yet have gravity well over 300 Billion times the gravity of Earth since as the insanely powerful Neutron Star.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZW3aV7U-aik
GBE of a Neutron Star – 7.612 Kilofoe
452.133 Tenatons Low end (2.75 times the GBE of the Sun)
17.015 Tenakilotons High End ( 103.63 times the GBE of the Sun )
Needless to say,even with a higher output, Broly is not Galaxy busting unless he can destroy sun’s thousands of times larger than our own let alone Neutron Stars.Even our sun alone Broly would struggle to bust it.
6) Beerus>>>>>>>>Every DBZ villan
Beerus usually uses his power to destroy planets,[6] but he is strong enough to destroy entire solar systems with ease (as said by King Kai, who described Beerus’ energy as like a ‘freight train’) and can even destroy entire galaxies, although this is enough to severely tire him out.
Beerus> Every other villain within the entire DB series and not even Beerus is said to be a Universe buster, hell he gets tired out from busting Galaxies.There is over 200 Billion Galaxies within the Universe, if Beerus gets tired out from blowing up just a few Galaxies, he’s not even 1/100,000,000,000th as strong enough to Universe bust.
E = mc 2
M= 8,353,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ( Mass of a average star )
c² = 89,875,517,800,000,000 mtr²/sec²
X= 120,000,000,000 c (Times the Speed of Light)
Overall energy=3.838840854366955e+58 Joules
9.1750498431e+40 megaton or 90.1 Peta Foe (90% the GBE of the Mlikly Way Galaxy)
And this is considering Beerus only using 70% of his power if we consider this is the potential energy of Beerus (Personally i think Beerus was using only 6% of his power given post training Goku and Vegeta Revival of F were still not on his level) Either way let’s consider that powerscaling.
Beerus Maximum output=128.57 Peta Foe( 128% the GBE of Milky Way Galaxy) Low End( Battle of Gods )
Beerus Maximum output=1.5 Exa Foe ( 15 times the GBE of Milky Way Galaxy) High End(Battle of Gods )
So roughly in the range Toryiama’s official statements state that Beerus is around up to Galaxy level, potentially up to Multi Galaxy level.
So when we take this into account that Goku is a 6 compared to Beerus 10,Goku would only have about 60% of Beerus power in SSJG and SSJG2 forms, we can powerscale to Goku’s Super Goldy Kamehameha Wave
Goku Maximum output=76.8 Peta Foe( 76.8% the GBE of Milky Way Galaxy) Low End ( Battle of Gods SSJG)
Goku Maximum output=900 Peta Foe ( 9 times the GBE of Milky Way Galaxy) High End (Battle of Gods SSJG 2)
So Broly at best is anywhere between Star level and Large Star level.Nowhere near Solar System level or Galaxy level.
We’ll get to the Bros Kamehameha wave and Broly’s movie 10 power level shortly, let’s tackle another massive lie/misconception of Broly’s power level.
B) Broly is Prefect Cell/Super Prefect Cell level
Many Brolytards claim Broly is at least as strong as Prefect Cell or Super Prefect level,however re-watching the movies again, it doesn’t seem to support the case here.
Possibility A)Cell was killed by Android 16 and Tien before he can absorb 17. Piccolo and 17 along with Tien and 18 and Imperfect Cell dies. Super Vegeta and Trunks end they’re training prematurely after hearing the news of this, however Goku and Gohan still trained for the spot of it, however achieved nowhere near the same power they did against Cell.
Possibility B) Cell was allowed to achieve Semi Prefect State however Vegeta bloodlusted was able to easily destroy Semi Prefect Cell, Android 18 was deactivated . Goku and Gohan achieve halfway around their power level within that timeline however can’t fully master their SSJ form due to time constraints.
Possibility C) Vegeta does stupidity try to allow Semi Prefect Cell to obtain prefect form. Trunks goes all out and overpowers Vegeta in their struggle and then proceeds to easily kill Semi Prefect Cell, Android 16 and Android 18
Evidence supporting this claim
Possibility C) Gohan’s hair is much shorter than it is when he went into the chamber and he looks older,this supports the theory that Gohan and Goku were only half as strong as they were in the Cell Games because the part Gohan achieves SSJ is around the time Cell achieves Prefect form.
Broly’s power level: Going by what is shown in the movie, it’s easily above Imperfect Cell and Semi Prefect, to what extend varies by scenario.
.
Possibility A)Broly would only be as strong as Super Vegeta, supported by the fact Trunks and Vegeta haven’t achieved a fully ascended super sayain.
Possibility B and C) Broly is easily stronger than Super Vegeta and Super Trunks and stronger than Super Goku and basic SSJ Gohan, however as seen with Cell suppressing his power and still overwhelming even Ultra Super Sayain Trunks in both speed and power, Cell is still way stronger than Broly.Especially when you consider the factor that Gohan and Goku’s training was abruptly interrupted with the death of Semi Prefect Cell.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/IN0Qx_1wNic
So going by this and this video, this disproves that Broly is as strong as fans want him to be.Cell is never mentioned at all in this movie, in fact it’s well assumed Cell was dead around this movie and considering there was no SSJ2, it’s highly unlikely he ever achieved prefect form. Also considering Gohan was the weakest in the movie compared to everyone else( Next to Piccolo who notably hasn’t trained in the Hyperbolic time chamber either), it’s very unlikely that Broly was much stronger than Super Vegeta, at best he’s around Suppressed Prefect Cell to Super Trunks level which is far below the power level of a full powered Prefect Cell.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/d9Nj7__JKa8
Another thing that contradicts Brolys power level being Prefect Cell is the fact while Trunks and Vegeta have trained, they don’t use their ascended SSJ forms at any point of the movie which deeply contradicts the idea this is even before the Semi prefect Cell fight. This outs them Mid Roast level at best.
C) Broly has infinite Ki and gets unlimted strength like the Hulk
This is possibly one of the most common retarded arguments we seen from Brolytards,especially those who think Broly can fight stronger fictional characters. Yep this argument is used to claim Broly can beat anyone from Majin Buu to Beerus and from Hulk to One Above All and it’s a very shitty argument.
First of all, there is no such thing as infinite ki. Even the so called “unlimited” ki the Androids have limits as it can never exceed their programmed level of power. Hence why Android 18 never got much stronger than when she was back when she was frist introduced and mind you androids vastly out pace that of natural creatures and humans in stamina. Case and point, Cell has the unlimited energy of both 18 and 17 and yet was tried out after exerting himself to a certain during his battle with Goku.
Also if DBZtards were honest ,they would’ve seen that Broly’s power was overflowing, not ‘rising”, as in he can barely control the output of his power, hence why he has to unleash his power to the point of exceeding critical mass.
In fact if you recall from the Fireza Saga, Vegeta mentions the legendary Super Sayain had so much power that he couldn’t control said power and he ended up killing himself because of the lack of control of it. Broly seems to be going through the same thing here.
It should be noted that the Legendary Super Sayain form is 50 times stronger than the power of a normal Super Sayain, this can be seen with the face that in Movie 10, base Gohan can match a weakened normal SSJ Broly however was being considerably overpowered when he turned LSSJ. This is also a notable factor regarding how LSSJ4 Broly can overpower both SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta easily but more on that later.
This is supported by the fact that Goku within SSJ form was on par SSJ Broly but outmatched by LSSJ Broly and not even the combined might of SSJ Gohan, Piccolo, SSJ Trunks, SSJ Vegeta and SSJ Goku.
Note Goku needed to combine his power to outmatch Broly by borrowing the ki of his friends Note that all his friends powers boosted him to the point he was able to double Broly’s power and beat him.If Broly’s power really did increase by large amounts, then not even a full powered SSJ punch would protect him.
But let’s play devils advocate and claim that Broly’s power can increase every 5 minutes by 2 times each, that’s far too slow of a power increase to really deal with anyone of any real threat to Broly.
But let’s pretend Broly really does have unlimited Ki, he would need a full 30 minutes just to boost his power level to surpass even base Prefect Cell with a growth rate of power at just 2 times for every 5 minutes. He would need a mere hour just to surpass Super Prefect Cell in power. It would take him a full day of charging up just to match Fat Majin Buu, over a year of charging to match the power level of Super Buu, a full decade just to match Kid Buu in power and 40,000,000 years before he even reaches Beerus level. Needless to say, it’s fucking absurd to even think Broly can even match Prefect Cell let alone Hulk in power increase.I know DBZ is infamous for characters for just standing there and letting them power up but this is ridiculous.
Let’s assume even more ridiculous estimates and assume Broly gets stronger every minute by 2 times. It would take him 6 minutes to reach the league of Prefect Cell, 12 minutes to match Super Prefect Cell, around 5 hours to match Fat Majin Buu, 72 days to match the output of Super Buu, 2 years to match Kid Buu and over 8,000,000 years just to keep up with Beerus.
Hell let’s get even more outlandish and assume Broly gets stronger every second by 2 times. It would take him 6 seconds to match Prefect Cell, 12 seconds to match Super Prefect Cell, 5 minutes to reach Fat Buu’s level, 1 day and 5 hours to reach Super Buu’s level, 12.16 days to reach Kid Buu’s level and 133,333 years to reach Beerus.
Let’s assume Ki overflow for a minute now. Remember Tien’s fight with Nappa ? Tien who had a power level of 1,798 was clearly outmatched against Nappa and couldn’t put a scratch on him, yet when he did his Neo Tir Beam, he almost killed Nappa with a power level of 4,000, meaning that Tien around tripled his ki to the point he died from the shock of overuse.
Let’s assume even higher end given Sayains are tougher than humans, Goku using the Kaioken x3 power was doing extreme stress to his body. Repeated use plus x4 nearly killed Goku. At best i can see Broly surviving up to at least a 20 fold power increase, before exploding from the over-pressure. But lets use science to determine the case of my argument.
The average Human body can withstand about 50 PSI blast pressure meaning sudden impact. As far as sustained pressure the human body can withstand as much as 400 PSI providing it is gradually increased to this amount.
Given when Z characters power up, they become easily much stronger! When they increase their power, and immense amount of air pressure is associated with regards to them powering up to the point that rocks and buildings shatter from the sheer weight of air pressure.
Given we can’t determine the PSI of Z characters, we’ll instead use their maximum output. Broly’s output is at least up to 452.133 Tenatons. At best Broly can only survive up to a power increase of 180.853 Tenakilotons or 7.56 Supernovas before his body explodes from over-pressure as established by the fact he can barely contain his ki.
In other words Broly’s power at around 1 hour going by the 5 minutes=2x power thing would cause Broly to explode and die, 20 minutes if we go by 1 minute=2x power and 12 seconds if we go by 1 second=2x power
This is also assuming everyone would be stupid enough to just let Broly charge up his ki.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBSmysMy6zI
Given Broly was fighting within the movie for a full 30 minutes and didn’t visibility get stronger( Goku who got twice as strong as LSS4 Broly was able to easily one shot Broly with a punch), it’s safe to assume that Broly increasing his Ki and getting much stronger while fighting is a myth made by Brolytards. Even assuming Broly did get stronger in battle everytime he’s in LSSJ, the power level increase means jackshit given that power pales in comparison to the power increases from far stronger characters.
Not to mention the fact that none of the characters were even SSJ’s when they gave Goku their powers. Mind you in the Lord Slug Movie, Piccolo gave Goku at least 4 times as much power he needed to make Kaiokenx100 when he could only go up to Kaiokenx25 or known as False Super Sayain.
Note while Trunks and Vegeta are notably weaker than they are at the Prefect Cell Saga, they’re still at least around Android Saga level SSJ power levels in base which is below Piccolo fused with Kami, presumably the same with Gohan as well. Given SSJ only makes Goku 50 times stronger plus the energy gained by even weakened base states, Goku at best would’ve gotten a 10 fold power increase. Note that even with that combined power, it’s inferior to even a Cell Jr . Overall Broly is nowhere near strong enough and doesn’t increase his power nearly enough or strong enough to challenge anyone far stronger than them.
Hell let’s contrast that to the Hulk, you know the guy Broly is always is compared to ?
Hulk goes from matching the likes of Thor in a fight ( A being that can solo the DBZverse ) to overpowering Onslaught who outclassed Juggernaut’s full power with ease and took out most of the powerful Marvel characters. Broly is nothing compared to Hulk.Broly isn’t even a cheap imitation of the Hulk, he’s just an insect by comparison
D) Broly got Zenkai within Movie 10
One of the most common misconception DBZ fans and liesDBZtard‘s spew is the fact that Broly got a Zenkai in Movie 10. However this is a outright myth given Broly was shown to never healed from his injury and in fact got frozen in ice. I doubt that’s going to heal any wounds.
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It has been stated and shown that unless a Sayain heals from his injuries, he can’t get a Zenkai boost.Vegeta himself noted that, which makes sense, a near death injury is going to drain your ki drastically, unless you heal fully, you’re going to be drastically weaker than your previous peak power.If Goku came to fight Fireza early instead of recover in the healing tanks, he would’ve been utterly destroyed by Fireza’s first form alone let alone push Fireza into using 50% of his power.
Note Borly’s injury was visible throughout the 10th movie. This alone debunks he got stronger within Movie 10,combine that with the fact he was frozen in Ice for years and he would’ve gotten much weaker,especially given his muscles have been weakened due to inactivity, the fact he would starving for 4 years straight.
Also note in the movie, his opposition was Gohan, Goten and Trunks, none of them as strong as Cell Games characters,especially with a severely rusty Gohan who got much weaker than he was in the Cell Games. In fact Gohan was actually training to return to his original power around the timeline of the movie.
First let’s start with Goten and Trunks, Goten and Trunks Pre ROAST were only half as powerful as Android 18, they are stronger than when Vegeta and Future Trunks originally were. While that’s immensely powerful, note Imprefect Cell with many humans absorbed curbstomped both Piccolo and Android 17 and that power pales compare to Semi Prefect Cell.
Note Gohan in base form was able to hold his own evenly with SSJ Broly even though the former hasn’t training within 7 years and is severely rusty. Hell Gohan could barely maintain SSJ at that state.Mind you Broly had trouble with Goten and Trunks in SSJ state while he was a Super Sayain, that puts Broly in SSJ at least Android 18’s level. In other words, Broly became much weaker.
Note that even mid ROAST characters can still easily curbstomp 17 and 18 even if they’re training wasn’t 100% complete. Broly as a SSJ was able to hold his own with SSJ’s back in Movie 8 that would still wipe the floor with the Androids easily, yet in Movie 10,Broly has grown so weak that he has trouble with base Gohan,SSJ Gotenk and Trunks while in SSJ. This puts Broly only at Semi Prefect Cell level in LSSJ which is a massive downgrade in power given Broly was at least Super Vegeta Post ROAST level.
To add insult to injury,Gohan was vastly weaker than when he fought Dabura , hence this is a greater blow to the argument that Broly has become stronger. Goten and Trunks while strong were inferior to Piccolo in power and despite Piccolo being near Prefect Cell level, he was one shotted by Dabura himself.Gohan despite being rusty was still able to keep up with him.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/bthV2eFZuCY
To make matters worse, Pui Pui alone can potentially match even Broly at his prime given he’s stated to be only 5 times weaker than Dabura. Mind you Dabura even holding back was Prefect Cell level at full power, that puts Pui Pui at least Prefect Cell suppressed power or around as strong as Super Vegeta. Yes a fuckboy like him can potentially beat Broly at his best let alone a weakened Broly.
In fact could Broly even survive 10 G’s ? Like Goku, he never grew up on Planet Vegeta and at no point was it ever implied he can withstand 10 G’s. Vegeta who was shaking in his boots in Movie 8 would be raping Broly the same way he did to Pui Pui if this was Buu Saga Vegeta. Eitherway the claim Broly would be a threat to any Buu Saga character when even Mid ROAST characters can beat him is laughable
E) Broly in LSS4 can beat Beerus and SSJ4 Gogeta
One of the most recent examples of Broly Wank comes from Dragon Ball Heros in which Broly somehow survives the sun from Movie 10 and was given LSSJ4 thanks to the Black Smoke Dragon. It’s shown in the trailer that he was stronger than SSJ 4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta. However given Broly can still be stopped by the likes of Note and he wasn’t able to fully outclass SSJ3’s and SSJ4 Goku and SSJ4 Vegeta like he did to Mid ROAST characters who couldn’t even stop Broly in movie 8 .
So Broly at best would only be twice as strong as Shadow Dragon Saga SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta, which while powerful,they pale in comparison to Syn Shenron who alone is at least 10 times stronger than an un amped SSJ4 Goku let alone Omega Shenron and Omega Shenron is proven to be nothing compared to Beerus or whis.
After all going by the scaling of DBZ, we get at least this
250 Quntillion=Whis estimated full power
166 Qunntilion= Beerus estimated full power
100 Quntillion=Golden Fireza/ SSJG 2 Goku and Vegeta
10 Quntillion=SSJ4 Gogeta/ SSJG Goku battle of Z/ Bereus using”70%” of his power
5 Quntillion= God Essence False Super Sayain Vegeta and Goku
1 Qunttilion= Omega Shenorn
100 Qaudrillion= SSJ Vegito’s power/SSJ4 Goku
12 Qaudrillion= Buuhan’s strongest power level
1.2 Qaudrillion= Kid Buu’s strongest power level
1.2 Tirllion = Super Prefect Cell’s estimate power
120,000,000 =Fireza’s maximum power( Namek Saga)
Going by this graph(Which doesn’t factor Zenaki or Mupitlers) Broly in LSSJ 4 would be at least 200 Qaurdrillion.His power is vastly overestimated going by the DB heros trailer.He’s much stronger but the gap between him and his opponents is not nearly as wide as Movie 8 in which no one could even slow Broly down.
1)Goku is the strongest character in fiction EVARZ
Of course the most common argument from DBZtards is Goku being the strongest fictional character ever because “LOL planebusters”.This is probably cheating to some extent but this is the most common place argument i’ve seen from DBZtards. Goku is seriously not even in the Top 500 list of strongest fictional character via ability nor even a High Tier in fiction.
At best Goku is only Galaxy to Muilt Galaxy level, which is around the baseline powerlevels of most Marvel and DC Superheros like Superman and Thor. However both Thor and Superman’s maximum power and potential far exceeded anything in the DBZverse.
Here are the common arguments used by DBZtards.
Goku can destroy planets with his Kamehameha. I doubt any other fictional can destroy planets with anything. Character A may be strong and all, but Goku would win by a landslide.
LOL! This is logic you expect from DBZtards who never seen any other anime or fictional series.There are at least 530 confirmed Planet or Plantaery level characters in fiction with hundereds of more impiled planet busters .DBZ holds no monopoly on Planet Busting at all. There are at least 298 confirmed Solar System to Galaxy level characters in fiction and hundereds movie ,these 298 characters can match the top tiers of DBZ in a fight.There are over 255 causal Galaxy busters to Universe busters within fiction and hunderds more, these characters would easily match Beerus and Whis in base power and solo the DBZverse at full power.
And then come the Universe busters, there are at leas 200 of them in fiction alone and they range from casual Universe busters to potential Multiverse busters. There are 176 Multiverse busters who can ascend to Omiverse level, and there are 10 true gods who have no eqaul in fiction, these people vastly suprass Billions of Multiverse which each contain 10^500 Universes.
If DBZ were to be compared to other verses, at best it would be a Mid tier verse.At best, the strongest DBZ character would only compare to the base power of more powerful Marvel and DC heroes such as Hulk,Thor, Superman and Wonder Woman, a full powered version of all those characters destory the DBZverse with utter ease. Demi Gods such as Galatcus Odin,Zesu and Domaramu can crush DBZ top tiers with one finger and beings like Prescence, One Above All,Living Tribunal and Spectre.
Anime Verses like Saint Seyia and Sailor Moon also outclass DBZ with it’s high and top tiers with Saint Seyia Top tiers and God tiers surpassing Sailor Moon as a whole . Verses like Gurren Larrgan and JJBA would easily destroy a DBZ top tier with little effort. Verses such as
Goku has an insatiable desire to excel and progress in fighting
And ? You act as if he’s the only character who enjoys fighting! Clearly, you’re not read anything that wasn’t DBZ .
its been stated that Goku has always been focused on just improving and nothing else. even his family takes a backseat to his fighting.
And?That proves nothing, that proves Goku is an idiot and thinks about nothing mroe than fighting and it kinda limits him as a hero when you look into context.
a Saiyans strength doubles/increases every time they are close to death/lose a battle. therefore Goku will never hit a Limit
That’s what we call the No Limt Fallacy.Frist of all ,Goku’s Znekai increases his power up to 10x as seen with him going from barely handling Ginyu without Kaioken to him matching base Final Form Fireza.Second of all, it does have a limit, unless Goku fully heals from his injuries, he would not become stronger at all. There’s also the factor that he needs to get his ass handed to him as well.Unlike Cell who can compensate damage with regeneration and get an instant Zenkai boost, Goku can’t do that at all.
Theoretically Goku has no limits on how much his Zenkai can increase his power but that’s in theory. In practice, it’s a non factor. Superman and Thor at their best alone are still well over 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000 ,000,000,000,000 times stronger than Goku at his absolute strongest .
To give you a clue of how powerful this form is. Goku can fuse with his GT counterpart who fused with the Dragon Balls and trained for 100 years who is fused with Vegeta and use Portata to fuse SSJG Vegito and Gogeta together and the end result would still be only 1/10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th the power of Golden Superman or Rune King Thor and those characters still pale in comparison to gods like Spectre and Living Tribunal who control Billions of Multiverses on their own
Hell just for Goku to become this strong just to match Superman’s full power without fusions, Goku would have to train at least 78,5019,999,090 years just to match the power of the fusion of SSJ4 Gogeta and SSJG Vegito who trained for 100 years straight.
That’s over 5.6 times the age of the Universe. Needless to say Goku is not immortal and given it took 15 years of training to boost his power back 400 times from the Buu Saga in GT, his power increase without fusion is beyond the range of ever matching Superman on his own in his lifetime. With Zenkai being a factor, this lessens the time to around 7.8 Billion years, which is still light years beyond Goku’s age.
However let’s humor the fact that every day Goku fights a villain that pushes him to the limits within his fight and he gets Zenkai for every day for over 100 years It would take Goku over 215,073 years just to reach the level of SSJ4 Gogeta and SSJG Vegito who trained for 100 years straight who can match a full power Superman and Thor. Even with Hyperbolic time chamber that makes every year a day, it would still require Goku to train and fight non stop every day against an opponent for 589 years,2 months , 27 days, 18 hours , 5 minutes and 7 seconds.
Now let’s try this with every hour Goku fights someone who pushes him to the limit and he does this for every day for over 100 years in the Hyperbolic time chamber. It would take him about 24 years before he reaches the level of Superman or Thor at their full power base.Goku’s power would never exceed or match that of Superman and Thor at their absolute strongest let alone surpass them or any fictional character.
And this is just with two characters in Marvel and DC. I can name plenty of anime characters who just as easily outclass Goku in power, not limited to Saint Seyia,Bastard,JJBA or even Sailor Moon.
Now, with all this knowledge, who would win? well none of this stuff matters, because, as some of you may have noticed, I left a little something out. Just a small deciding factor….THE DRAGONBALLS!!!!!! Yup, because the simple fact of the matter is, Goku has already died, TWICE! (as has superman) but even forgetting all that, he could just wish for something that would handicap superman. Note that Porunga is more powerful than shenron, and as a result his only limitations are whether or not he wants to grant the wish.
goku is an eternal dragon. he is ETERNAL.
Dragon Balls:
Shenron’s powers are limited by the wielder of his powers like Kami for insistence. Kami who at most is only Moon level can’t expand beyond the realms of his powers. Kami can’t restore an entire planet( Hence why the Namekians where instead relocated to a new Namek like planet) He can’t kill a Planet Buster and a Small Planet buster( Hence why he couldn’t kill people like Nappa or Vegeta) so yeah they’re limited to only Moon level power. The Namekian Dragon Balls are much stronger and can bring back a planet at most but that’s about it.
Silver Crystal:
The Silver Crystal on the other hand can effortlessly revive entire planets of people, easily restore planets, repair star systems and even destroy or restore an entire galaxy. The Silver Crystal doesn’t take a year to be used again, it has little drawbacks aside from the user’s skill and experience and energy level to use it but the powers of the Silver Crystal can be whatever the user wield it to be.
You seriously think you’re petty pet dragon even remotely compares to Sailor Moon’s Silver Crystal? The Silver Crystal would effortlessly wipe out Fireza’s army and the Fireza Family with a single thought, it has the power at it’s weakest to easily destroy planets and stars. The Sayains wouldn’t even be around if they used the Silver Crystal instead of the Dragon Balls. It’s laughable that you would even compare the Dragon Balls to the Silver Crystal.
You would have to scale the level of power in Dragonball way down. It would not merge into a DC universe /Marvel Verse or any verse, they’re jsut too strong.
DBZ would never surpass all of fiction, the sheer level of power of top tiers is beyond comprehension. Even just catching up to Sailor Moon alone would require power far beyond that of what they’re currently able to achieve. The absurdity that DBZ would be anything more a mere warm up for Mid Tiers in Marvel and DC is like claiming Naruto can defeat all DBZ and Sailor Moon characters with utter ease.
Goku is but a mere speck in the DC and Marvel Universe. In fact power alone means nothing in either DC or Marvel. Even a well trained human with a Adaminatim or Virabumn weapon can easily defeat the strongest DBZ character
So spare me the hyperbole DBZtards. At Goku’s rate of power, he’s never going to surpass Superman. The gap in power between Superman and Goku is as wide as the gap in power between Naruto and Goku. Naruto is a strong Shonen protangist but the tier and gap is far too wider to challenge anything less than the weakest state of Goku.Goku in the case of Superman vs Goku is like Naruto and Superman is like Goku.
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