How strong is DB/Z/S? Dragon Ball verse tier list Part 2:Dragonball Z

How strong is DB/Z/S? Dragon Ball verse tier list Part 2:Dragonball Z

Yep we  return with Dragonball Z  feats this time around

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/06/14/how-strong-is-db-z-s-dragon-ball-verse-tier-list-part-1dragonball/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/dragon-ball-universe/4015-56629/forums/dragon-ball-noteworthy-feats-1777189/#13

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/dragon-ball-universe/4015-56629/forums/absolue-guide-to-dragon-ball-feats-1501713/#6

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/dragon-ball-universe/4015-56629/forums/absolue-guide-to-dragon-ball-feats-1501713/#6

https://imgur.com/tlV4NNt

https://irenebelserion69.newtumbl.com/post/11306195

irenebelserion69 | newTumbl

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/06/17/salty-dbztard-threatens-to-dox-me/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/01/04/ftl-speed-scale/

Yep back to Dragonball Z again, this time doing a collection of feats from various characters within the verse, note as of Dragon Ball Z Kai(which is accepted as canon by many fans and officially,) Toeiverse feats would be mostly accepted into the canon

Going by this video, we’re going to be using mainly the original Toyimara canon  along with the Toiverse.

https://dragonballuniverse.fandom.com/wiki/Canon

https://www.animefillerlist.com/shows/dragon-ball-z

Meaning we’re not counting any feats that occur within filler cut out by Dragonball Z Kai.

Meaning the Aria Feat is  officially non canon and won’t be included in the final cut of  this, wait until i do the Movies of Dragonball Z and the Video Game canon before i do that feat.

Garlic Jrs “star level” feat is omitted as it’s a massive outlier feat that contradicts power scaling  entirely.  How is Garicle Jr able to create a blackhole when planetbusitng is still a big deal in this point in the series? Mind you the first movie takes place before Radtiz arrives on Earth, yet Garlic Jr has a feat superior to Final form Fireza so yeah massive outlier.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Amelia_Lonelyheart/Toeiverse:_King_Vegeta_Destroys_Planetoids

King Vegeta multi Planet feat is also not canon. It only appears in the original Dragonball Z anime, not in Kai so it’s disregarded as Non-Canon, it also is within flashback that seems exaggerated in scale of power and contradicts power scaling

Mind you Vegeta makes a  big deal about blowing up a single planet, no way King Vegeta who’s  below Saiyan Saga Vegeta has not only a far superior feat to his son but has a feat comparable to First Form Fireza’s destruction of Namek

Especially considering he was fodderized by Fireza effortlessly.  We’ll  discuss this feat in detail in the DBZ Movies canon as well as GT.

The Otherworld tournament  is also non canon in this point as it’s not in Kai and was cut out, there’s also the dubious feat of Goku going from King Kai’s planet to  Hell in 10 minutes which DBZtards wank as him crossing around 1/4th the size of the Universe which sounds like bunk as no quantifiable distance was ever stated.

After all Goku fell off snakeway at freefall speed during the Early Saiyan Saga.If Goku literally fell around the same length as  1/4th the universe,Goku would be falling  until the end of time and Earth would’ve been long destroyed by Nappa and Vegeta, even assuming Goku is falling down at Lightspeed, Goku would be falling for over 23.25 Billion Years,hence why i consider the   official calc for the Toeiverse from VS Battle wiki to be complete bunk, also contradicts several other feats and scaling.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Bleach

Then again i commented on how bad VS Battle Wiki research is  with the Bleach one and i’m not done with them yet, just wait until i tackle their Broly wank in the movie version(the Original Broly, not  DBZ Broly)

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Global_Training

All original anime only feats would be counted in the Dragonball GT and DBZ Movies canon which would be separate  from this list.

Dragonball GT is also not going to be touched here either as it’s been dismissed as Noncanon and would be its own separate post along with the Movies continuity and the Video Game composite continuity.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Super_Saiyan_God_Julian/DBXV/DBH_feats_and_statements_compilation

The Games continuity is going to be covered separately,   it might get a mention when we do Zeno aka the Omni King 

 given  in my Sailor Moon respect thread, i compare different non canon continuities to that of Timelines and dimensions but that’s for another journal.

Were also going to  edit some feats within our previous post  now that we established Arale is part of the Dragon Ball canon(Abelt she merely was a cameo within Dragonball and FAR WEAKER than her canonical feats)  And we’re going to revamp the Moonbusting feat and redefine that feat and edit some scaling.

Dragon Ball Z Feats/Verse tiering

Destructive Potency/Durability

As anyone know, in the previous Dragonball respect thread, the top tiers of the verse are at least Small Planet level to Planet level going by the power scaling of silmair feats between Roshi’s Moonbusting Kamehameha Wave with him having a power level of roughly 1,390 which could’ve killed Kid Goku’s Great Ape form at a power level of  1,250, Goku’s Super Kamehameha Wave which is compared directly to Roshi’s Moonbuster at 910 and then there’s Piccolo’s slightly casual Ki Blast that blew up the moon that should easily be around the same power as Goku’s 23rd Budokai Super Kamehameha Wave.  

One of the most common and dishonest forms of inflating power levels and powers within DBZ is the claim Roshi at a power level of 139 can moon bust. It’s an outright lie to say the least given the fact Roshi with such a power level comes nowhere close to Moon Busting.

In fact King Piccolo who had a power level twice as high could barely City bust without being exhausted severely. This.This alone debunks the myth that  Roshi can moon bust within a power level of 139.

Further case in point of King Piccolo not being anywhere near Moon level is him stating his full power would shorten his lifespan.And he stated prior to his attack, that this is his full power.

Therefore a power level of 260=Only Countrylevel +

Because that’s actually his base power, not maximum power level readings.

Another case and power is that Piccolo with a power level of 322 is only shown to be a casual Island buster with his casual ki attacks, there is no way Roshi with a power level of 139 is a moon buster.

And before the DBZtards claim  that if Piccolo and Goku were that powerful, why were they curbstomped by Raditz ?  Simple, notice that both Goku and Piccolo without weighted clothing were around 322-336 in 23rd Budokai?   They are easily that power level against Raditz with Weighted clothing, proving they got much stronger in the 5 year skip.  Further evidence by the fact that Piccolo’s peak power was around 900 in 23rd Budokai whereas his special Beam Canon was around 1,333

Given scouters at best only measure base power levels, they did not factor a serious Roshi or his MAX POWER state . After all, what ultimately killed Raditz was the fact he was arrogant and relied too much on the scouter for base power level readings.

Roshi powered up when he blew up the moon with his moon busting Kamehameha Wave so he was nowhere near  139, he was far stronger. 

Considering his MAX power form resembles the power of Ultra Sayain , his power is more than 10 times higher base, putting Roshi up to 1390, however up until Battle of Gods, he  couldn’t use it due to decrease in speed and durability which would’ve made it impossible to use against King Piccolo who was faster than Kid Goku.

Enlarge this imageClick to see fullsize

Another thing debunking this claim is Piccolo with a power level base level of around 322 with weighted clothing blowing up the moon.Even that Piccolo  had some difficulty busting the moon despite what people tend to think.

Note the blast used against Radtiz was around the same  energy output he used against the moon  as seen with the two scans here. Meaning the blast Piccolo fired was not casual, however it wasn’t his full power either given he was wearing weighted clothing which limits his power by 25%.

So this  alone debunks the claim Roshi at 139 can Moon Bust or King Piccolo can planetbust.

For those what want to ask”If Roshi was this strong, why didn’t he beat King Piccolo”? The answer is simple, originally his form had a major weakness, it’s lack of speed.

 Roshi himself admits he doesn’t like using this form because of the drawbacks it has in speed,stamina and even durability.

After all weighted clothing restricts Piccolo’s Ki by 25% as proven within the Frieza fight,Piccolo’s Maximum Power level  in the Raditz Arc is 1,330 when doing the Special Beam Cannon( Which is relative to the Roshi Max Kamehameha Wave  except much faster and has more piercing potency)25% less power is around 997 underweighted clothing, given Piccolo did this fairly casually, Piccolo would be using at least 850 to blow up the moon.

Raditiz at the power level of 1500 was casually stronger than Piccolo and Goku who are both casual Moonbusters, cause, and point, 

the same effort Piccolo put into blowing up the Moon was tanked effortlessly by Raditz.

Even Goku’s normal Kamehameha Wave which is far superior to his Super one in the 23rd Budokai

Top 20 DBZtard lies and misinformation part 1 4471786-1077938477-149v8

Which can destroy the moon at a power level of 910

Couldn’t really damage Raditz at all despite peaking above 1,000 at one point.

Putting this into perspective Raditz at a power level of 1,500 is around  Large  Planet level as he outscales Piccolo and Roshi who were  up to Large Planet level via feats. 

To destroy the Earth you need roughly 57.3 Zettatons of TNT to destroy the GBE  of the Earth.Raditz,the weakest Dragonball Z character is more than powerful enough to blow up the entire earth without a trace.

As proven, Raditz has more than moon busting durability, he tanked Goku’s Kamehameha which is more powerful than Roshi’s moon busting Kamehameha. But Raditz was badly hurt by Gohan’s head hit and even became weak because of that. That’s a proof that Gohan hit with power more than moon busting level,if not  Large Planet level power.

If Radtiz was twice as powerful as Goku and Piccolo’s  2.98 Yottaton level attacks, he would be nearly 6 Yottatons in power,  Note Nappa is 5 times stronger than Raditz and Vegeta is roughly 15 times stronger than Raditz. 5 times 6 Yotatons is roughly 30 Yotatons  which is Large Planet level+ 

This should be noted that Piccolo’s Ki which is almost 3 times higher than when he fought Raditz,couldn’t do shit against Nappa despite having characters as powerful if not more powerful than Raditz aiding him.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kepekley23/Toeiverse_Piccolo_feats

Despite this, Vegeta effortlessly threw  Nappa and with one arm  before killing him showing that he possesses great physical strength to do such a thing considering how Nappa should weigh.

Goku describes the power of Vegeta of causing the whole Earth to crumble

No Caption Provided

Then is pulled by the energy and Goku describes the force of it as a hurricane

Vegeta at 15 times Raditz strength can reduce the planet to smoke, implying Vaporization energy.

Assuming Fragmentation Energy=GBE,  to pulverize  the Earth , you would need 1.5352 Yottatons of TNT which is Planet level+,  and to vaporize a whole planet, you would need roughly 184.076 Yottatons of TNT  Which is Large Planet level+, seems about consistent with scaling as Nappa weaker than Vegeta is around 30 Yottatons.

By  power scaling from Vegeta, this is how the scaling would work

Vegeta/Goku Full power Saiyan Saga=24,000-27,000/32,000 (184.076 Yottatons)

Ginyu Force:45,000(At least 306.7 Yottatons)

Goku:90,000( At least  613.59 Yottatons -6.13 Ninatons)

Captain Ginyu: 120,000( Around borderline Dwarf Star level)

The latter of Vegeta’s statements is backed by Fireza’s casual destruction of Planet Vegeta, a planet with 10 times the gravity of Earth.

And Frieza called Earth a “tiny” Planet by comparison.

http://web.archive.org/web/20190603013119/https://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-vs-sections/general-discussion/calcs/174024-dragon-ball-super-calc-frieza-destroys-planet-vegeta

The original calc claimed that that the entire mass of the planet expanded to the edge of the screen in 3 frames (something like a tenth of a second), before the explosion of Supernova inside the planet even expanded out.

But in the third frame there, that’s just the surface of the planet reaching the edge of the screen. What about the mantle? The core? They didn’t reach the edge of the screen that fast. Wouldn’t the density differences of the layers effect the speed at which what layers are ejected, especially with a planet of unusual gravity like this?

OBD doesn’t know how to make a low end (not the e+37 bullshit pre-explosion low end they have there to make the e+41 high end look more reasonable). The true low end here is the time it takes for the entire mass of the planet, the last piece of debris, to leave the screen.

The timeframe for this to happen is about 1 second.

374 / 305 = 1.226229508196721 * 12756 km = 15641.78 km expanded in 1 second

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Resourc…Parameter.html

10G Earth sized planet has a mass of 5.973E+25 kg

KE = 0.5*5.973E+25*15641780^2

KE = 7.3069286e+39 Joules

1,746,397 Yottatons of TNT, or 1.7 Tenatons

High Dwarf Star level First Form Frieza

Going by this calc i found, Frieza’s feat of blowing up Planet Vegeta is is up to 7.3069286e+39 Joules of energy  or or 1.7 Tenatons making Frieza in first form of 530,000 Dwarf Star level+

Fireza’s destruction of Planet Vegeta puts him within the Dwarf Star levels of power . This would make anyone below Fireza but far above Raditz and Nappa at least Large Planet level+

Meaning all of Fireza’s TOp Henchmen

The Ginyu Force

Nail

And all Post Saiyan Saga characters above a power level of 10,000 are Large Planet level+

.https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZCJXh8hgQ4c?autoplay=0&enablejsapi=1

Going by Anime Timeframe, it took 13 seconds once it left the atmosphere of Namek to blow up the nehigbrhobrhooding planets, dividing this by 13, you get a speed of roughly 2,923,076.92 km/sec for low end and over 4,200,000 km/sec for the high end, dividing this by 300,000 km/sec, this would give Frieza a casual 9.74c to 14c speed and give his casual striking force Large Planet level.  

In fact feels more like a lowball to say it took 13 seconds, it’s likely that long because it’s proven that Frieza moves in slow motion compared to the speed of the Z Fighters as even Vegeta who can perceive Frieza’s casual speed which is at least 1,000 times faster than Light couldn’t react to Frieza’s new found speed. It makes very little sense for Frieza to have speed slower than Sayain Saga Vegeta nor an attack that can be felt over tens of Millions of kilometers from Namek to merely be only Large Planet level.https://www.youtube.com/embed/5kDt3d0LiME?autoplay=0&enablejsapi=1

Especially when a far weaker form of Frieza casually destroyed Planet Vegeta with a Dwarf Star level Supernova attack.

Let’s factor Frieza’s power level of 3,000,000 which is 2,000 times faster than Raditz’s 1.1c and him kicking Vegeta’s attack which would make far more sense.  This would give Frieza a casual speed of 600,000,000 km/sec or 600,000,000,000 m/s, now let’s go back to the mass of 1.8072e+17kg per Ki Blast times velocity times the speed of Light and we get roughly 3.25296e+40 joules or  7.7747609943e+24 megatons of TNT/ 7.77 Tenatons which in English gives Frieza  Small Star level Energy in his Final Form at 5%, multiplying this by 20 and you get Frieza’s Maximum Attack potency at  155.4 Tenatons which actually pushes Frieza to Star level.

Goku easily scales to this strength wise as he was able to hold back Fireza’s Ki blast which as we established is at least Small Star level.

This would make Cooler’s statements about blowing up the sun far more credible given he’s at least 4 times stronger than Namek Saga Fireza,granted Cooler is non Canon and there would be a separate scaling for him later on but considering the power levels of the DBZ movies are based on canon power levels, it’s not too far off to assume Fireza can destroy a Star.

This is credible given this is  someone who vaporized Namek with an explosion so large, it crossed planetary distances in seconds.

This video actually breaks down the size of Namek with good arguments, scans and even scientific basis on how Namek can withstand the gravitational pulls of 3   Suns  yet can survive with a moderate climate with  the same Gravity of Earth, i do  think is scaling efforts are a bit off( The guy is the same idiot who claims Moonbusting is possible at 180 and Snakeway is 1/4th the size of the Universe)

A claim I’ve long debunked.

That being said, he’s onto something about the size of Namek.Namek has to be a fairly large planet to withstand the force of 3 Suns gravity while maintaining Earth Like temperatures and gravity  and goinby all images of Namek, it looks so large that other planets look much smaller than it by comparison.

The best image I can get for scaling purposes is Universe 6 Namken where several planets are visible here, we can use this for scaling for the Namek within Universe 7 as they’re identical in size and structure.

Random Planet:44px(12,750km/Potentially Earth sized planet)

Namek:491px(‭142,278 km)

So Namek is roughly the size of Jupiter within the real world  if not slightly bigger, which would explain why so many smaller planets don’t seem visible in many shots of Namek.

Going by Nakem’s shape and size it has the mass of a Rocky planet so let’s do some math on the size of the planet.

Length, Width and depth of Namek:142,278,000 m

Volume of Namek:‭2.880137720468952e+24‬ m^3

The Earth’s volume, by contrast, is only 1.08 quadrillion cubic kilometers (259 trillion cubic miles) or 1.08×10^15 m^3,Namek has a volume over‭ 2,666,666,666 times that of Earth. Now for the mass of the planet.

Density of Earth: 5503kg/m^3

Mass of Namek:‭1.584939787574064e+28‬kg 

Namek has roughly   8.3 times the mass of Jupiter and almost as much mass as a Brown Dwarf planet. In other words, this is a fairly large planet in size and mass.  

GBE calc ref by IreneBelserion69

Where U = GBE in joules, M = the mass of the body in question in kilograms, r = its radius in meters, and G = the gravitational constant of 6.67408×10^-11.

U=3GM^2/5R

U=0.00000000000667×1.584939787574064e+28‬kg^2/‭‭71,139‬,000  mx5    

U=0.00000000002001×‭3.169879575148128‬e+56kg^2/‭355,695,000‬ m

‭6.342929029871404e45/‭355,695,000‬ m

‭1.78324942151883e+37

U=‭1.78324942151883e+37 Joules

1.78324942151883e+37 joule = 4.2620684071e+21 megaton [explosive]  or 42.62 Ninatons of TNT (Dwarf Star level+)

GBE  of Namek: 42.62 Ninatons of TNT( Dwarf Star level)

Goddamn, to blow up the core of Namek, you need the same amount of energy as you need to blow up Planet Vegeta roughly,

Note Fireza held back on the blast to prevent killing himself with his own explosion and merely created a timebomb with the core.

 Now comes two feats from Frieza, one the casual feat of Virtually cutting the entire crust of Namek in half and  Goku haymaking away Fireza’s Strongest Ki blast into another planet.

Fireza casually splits the planet in half to the near the core merely to display just how strong he is, moving a whole lot faster than Goku was shown to do which considering how fast Goku is at this point, it’s saying a lot. Without going into speed scaling, we’re going to assume speed based on anime timeframe.

Normally I don’t do this as anime timeframes alone for fights seem to be hit or miss but considering this is a verse where characters move FTL casually, i’m making an exception.

This literal 4 hour long fight in the anime around the 3 hour mark is where Fireza made the infamous “5 minutes” claim before Namek explodes . At around 2:32:38 of the fight, Fireza makes the declaration that Namek would explode in  5 minutes, at the end of the video which is around  4:07:32, Goku still has about 2 minutes to escape Namek

Meaning 3 minutes within DBZ=‭‬ 1:55:00 or 93 minutes  in real time.

That means for each minute Frieza and Goku fight, it feels like  31 minutes have passed, meaning that   for each second perceived by Fireza and Goku,  almost a whole minute  or 51.6 seconds goes by.  This means for every split second attack they’re doing, they’re moving roughly‭0.0086111111111111‬ seconds in speed.

Meaning Fireza can split apart the entire diameter of Namek at the bare minimum speed of ‭0.0086111111111111‬‬ seconds.

Fireza mind you is doing this even faster than you think as he was FTE to Goku. Merely ignoring power scaling( we get more into the speed of Goku and Frieza in speed feats) to go Faster than eye to face, you need at the very least   7.67 to  38.86 times faster than the person perceiving your speed.

Mind you Goku can cross the entire Planetary diameter of Namek in a second to our perception which is about  58 times faster than a second, given Namek’s size at 142,000km, this is roughly 47% the speed of light alone if scaled to normal human senses and speed but since 5 minute long fights to Goku literally feel like almost two hours, his perception of speed is much faster than that.

Moving at ‭0.0086111111111111‬seconds on a planet with a diameter of ‭142,278,000 m/s‭, this would give Goku’s casual speed post Ginyu fight around ‭16,522,606,451.61292‬  or ‭55.11  c.

It’s safe to say given how outclassed Goku was in speed, Fireza was moving roughly 38.86 times faster than Goku  but let’s just use the bare minimum speed of 55c for this feat on Namek.

Assuming depth is similar in scale  to that of Earth, we’re going to have  up to the core of the planet cut by Frieza.Meaning the depth of the cut would be about only 85% of the planet’s volume as the Core is about 15% of the planet’s volume.

71,139‬,000×85%=‭60,468,150‬

85% of Trench depth:‭60,468,150‬ m

Diameter of Namek:142,278,000 m

142,278,000 mx3.14

Cirfurimance of Namek:‭446,752,920‬ m

Now for the width of the fissure, it seems to be at least 1 meter wide so safe to use that as the width. Now for the volume of rock destroyed.

Volume of rock destroyed:‭2.7014322579498e+16‬ m^3

Density of Earth: 5503kg/m^3

Mass Destroyed by Fireza:‭1.486598171549775e+20‬ kg

Now for the energy of the attack.

E=MxC^2/2

E=1.486598171549775e+20‬ kgx16,522,606,451.61292 m/s^2/2

E=‭2.029180666753851e+40‬ J

E=2.029180666753851e+40 joule = 4.8498581901e+24 megaton [explosive]  or  4.849 Tenatons of TNT( Dwarf Star level+)

Frieza casually splits  Namek in half:4.849 Tenatons of TNT( Dwarf Star level+)

Damn and this is a fairly casual attack on Fireza’s part, Fireza even noted he can very easily destroyed the planet if he wanted too but purposely held back his power 

Goku scales easily from this as SSJ Goku as he effortlessly haymaker one of Frieza’s Ki Blasts into space which should be Small Star level casually and Massively FTL, especially given he haymakered the blast past several planets until it hit a planet. 

Assuming all Ki blasts have the bare minimum energy density of at least 1.8072e+17kg within DBZ  and assuming the distance bare minimum throw was the distance between Earth and 

We Also have to factor perception speed of this battle    remember, 

for each minute Frieza and Goku fight, it feels like  31 minutes have passed, meaning that   for each second perceived by Fireza and Goku,  almost a whole minute  or 51.6 seconds goes by.  This means for every split second attack they’re doing, they’re moving roughly‭0.0086111111111111‬ seconds in speed.

Goku around 31:18  knocks out the blast  into a planet several planet lengths away, at 31:35, the planet explodes. Meaning the ki blast took 17 seconds to go from one end of the solar system to another. 

We’re going to use the estimated distance between Earth and Juptier  for distance.  We’ll use  628,743,036 km as a low end and 928,081,020 km  as a high end.

First the time perception speed.

0.0086111111111111‬x17 

‭0.14638

628,743,036,000/‭0.1463‭

928,081,020,000/‭0.14638

‭4,297,628,407,382.092‬ m/s or ‭14,335.34c 

‭6,340,217,379,423.418‬ m/s or ‭21,148.68 c

These speeds sound about consistent with the speeds of the Saiyan Space Pods King Kai was able to track about right, so now for the energy of the attack.

E=MxC^2/2

Low End

E=1.8072e+17kgx‭4,297,628,407,382.092‬ m/s^2/2

E=‭1.668913953088436e+42‬ J

1.668913953088436e+42 joule = 3.9888000791e+26 megaton [explosive]  or 398.888 Tenatons of TNT (Star level+)

High End

E=1.8072e+17kgx‭6,340,217,379,423.418‬ m/s^2/2

E=‭3.632323485961451e+42‬

3.632323485961451e+42 joule = 8.6814614865e+26 megaton [explosive]  or 868.146 Tenatons of TNT(Large Star level)

Fireza’s Full Power Ki Blast/Goku’s strongest punch:

398.888 Tenatons of TNT (Star level+/Low End)

868.146 Tenatons of TNT(Large Star level/High End)

3.632323485961451e+42 joule = 3.7039391494e+41 kilogram-force meter

Goku’s estimated lifting strength:3.7039391494e+41 kilogram-force meter

So a full power SSJ1 Goku and Fireza’s potential Supernova is arguably Large Star level.

  This  easily scales to physical power as Freeza who has beyond planet busting durability was hit by Goku by several ways (back head hit, kick, punch…) and Freeza was hurt badly and was bleeding from those hits. For someone who was at the verge of Death with low Ki and can survive planet explosion, get hit and bleed badly from Goku’s hits, that’s a concrete proof of Goku’s massively beyond planet busting level hits and actually within the Stellar range of punching power.

Aslo at roughly  3.7039391494e+41 kilogram-force meters.Goku’s  lifting strength would be equal to   lifting a whole galaxy over his head,take that downplayers.

This isn’t too far off from the fact Goku needed to borrow from all 3 suns within the Tierarrary Solar System namek as  there was very little life to get enough Ki for the spirit bomb . Son Goku mainly used Solar energy to  power his Spirit Bomb  so Large Star level is actually arguable here.

Fireza can also tank this same amount of force as seen with him surviving Goku’s spirit bomb which almost destroyed Namek.

This makes characters like Trunks all the more powerful as he effortlessly one shotted Mecha Fireza, who in his Mecha state base final form had the same power as his 100% Final Form, making him at least Large Star level.

Freiza who had Star level durability was cut like butter by Trunks, but Goku could block with only 1 finger the same striking attacks if not stronger. That’s irrefutable proof that Goku has massively beyond planet busting durability and above Star busting power.

In the anime, King Kai notes that Frieza’s Supernova is ten times stronger than the Death Ball he used to destroy Namek,this would make Mecha Frieza around Large Star level+.

This would put all the Androids

Piccolo fused with Kami

Post Android Training Saiyans 

And Tien 

All within the Large Star level+ range of power.  The  range between Large Star level and Solar System level is roughly 715.59x.

Androids are 10 times stronger than Trunks who’s ten times stronger than Mecha Fireza who’s Large Star level,Imperfect cell is 10 times stronger than them, this would put Prefect Cell around  Solar System level.

Especially when you considered Perfect Cell tanked Vegeta’s Final Flash Attack which not only casually crossed multiple planets but went into another Star System. In fact, lets do a calc on that.

The Second thing to calc is the distance of the beam itself and how it went.

The Beam is fired from Earth to Space between 4:29 to 4:39 of the video before it exploded, creating a Supernova like an explosion from a distance.

The closest star to Earth is Proxima Centauri, which is 4.36 lightyears away. For Vegeta’s blast to reach 4.36 Lightyears in 10 seconds, Vegeta’s blast would be traveling 2,616,000,000,000 miles per second or over 14,064,516 times the speed of light. Approximately 176 times faster than 100% Fireza’s speed.

Now time for the concussive force of the beam itself traveling at 14 Million times the speed of light or 14,064,516 c, simply Mupiltying Velocity with times the speed of Light and the mass which is  at least  1.8072e+17kg , you get a total of 3.212899986073396e+48 Joules or 32.84931 KiloFoe which is well above Solar System level’s borders.

Vegeta's final flash by IreneBelserion69

Vegeta’s Final Flash explosion: 71px(16,464,900km)

Star: 6px(1,391,400 km)

Explosion speed of the star:16,464,900km/sec or 54.83 c

The Sun exploded at basically 54.83 times the speed of Light which is over Mass Energy yield of the sun which is  1.8×10^47 Joules exploding, at the very least the exploison should produce 3.1976856e+49 Joules of Energy or roughly 326.939 KiloFoe or roughly 14358.3295 the energy needed to blow up the Solar System.

Vegeta’s Final Flash: 326.939 KiloFoe(Solar System level +)

Cell’s possible Solar Kamehameha Wave: 163.47 MegaFoe (Solar System level +)

Guide book states: “An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One’s personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell’s energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!

Power Scaling from Cell and Goku who are 10 Vegetas in this fight and Super Perfect Cell which is over 500 Vegetas, Cell’s power via power scaling should be 163.47 MegaFoe of force which is Solar System level, which is enough to vaporize everything within the Oot Cloud. So not only is Cell’s Solar System feat confirmed by statements, Vegeta’s own feats basically put him on this level via power scaling and simple logic.

This of course scales with the Attack Potency of  characters of this level. Goku who has massively beyond planet busting durability was hit badly and injured by Cell’s hits, those hits couldn’t even scratch Gohan’s face. That proves that Gohan’s durability can resist incredible powerful hits massively beyond planet busting level and even above Star busting power.

Gohan’s attack potency also scales to this as Cell’s children has proven to be more powerful than all SSJ1s, Vegeta’s hits, which are more powerful than Goku’s hit’s against Freeza, did little to no harm to Cell’s children. 

They are massively more durable than Freeza, more powerful, and have Freeza’s cells. Their durability exceeds planet busting level by far, but Gohan chopped their bodies to pieces with one hit. 

Even Semi Perfect cell arguably is within this range, note Semi Perfect cell is 10 times stronger than Android 16 who was twice as powerful as 17 and 18 combined as seen with Imperfect cell after consuming several towns of people got so strong, he beat both of them with ease, which BTW are also 10 times stronger than Post Training Sayains which are  10 times  stronger than Trunks who was 10 times stronger than Frieza. Considering Fireza’s strongest attack is barely Large Star level and Semi Perfect Cell was easily 20,000 times stronger than Fireza and the border of Solar System level   and Large Star level is 715.59x.  Considering 22.7 Foe  is  the baseline  of Solar System level and Semi Perfect cell is 20,000 times above Large Star Level, Semi Perfect Cell is actually around   634.44 Foe, this would make even imperfect Cell around or near Solar System level.

It should be noted that around the Buu Saga,  there’s not too many destructive feats of note compared to the last two arcs however the feats that do exist are of large scale.

Alot of DBZ downplays love to use the outlier feat of Goku’s struggling to lift 40 tons  to try to dismiss his physical strength feats,even going as far as to ignore his previous feats entirely. Allow me to debunk this argument.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/0/03/Goku_weights.gif/revision/latest?cb=20160420001319

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/4/49/Goku_water_tank.gif/revision/latest?cb=20160131205623

Not only do i have this to debunk the claim, I also have the Katchin feat.

Goku lifts a cubic meter of Katchin alloy which is said to be the hardest metal in the Universe the hardest known metal in the real universe is Neutron Star matter which weighs 5.5 million tons.  Let’s see how big this cube of Katchin is.

Goku:48px(1.75m)

Katchine: 51px(1.86m)

Katchin Volume:‭6.43m^3

A cubic metre of neutron star material would weigh just under 400 billion tonnes. Approximately the same weight as all the water in the Atlantic Ocean! In fact, on average, neutron stars are denser than atomic nuclei (at least twice as dense deep inside their cores).

Mass of Kacthin:‭2,573,942,400,000,000‬ kg

And to think Goku throws this like a baseball, merely going power scaling and Goku would have speed roughly that of Vegeta’s Final Flash

 it weigh so much because it’s so dense so something denser would weigh more  a cubic meter of Neutron Star matter weighs the same as the Atlantic Ocean which weighs 356,721,892,651,745,280 tons Goku throws it like a baseball in base form.

Let’s now clauca:te how much force and strength Goku put into the throw.

Mass of Katchin:2,573,942,400,000,000‬ kg

Speed of Goku’s throw:14,064,516 c or ‭4,216,435,822,220,328‬ m/s

Distance Goku threw Katchin:10 meters

F= MxVxD

F=‭4.576040007256377e+46‬ Joules

F=4.576040007256377e+46 joule = 1.0936998105e+31 megaton [explosive]  or  ‭‭457.677‬  Foe (Solar System level)

Goku throws Katichin:457.677‬  Foe (Solar System level)

Goku’s throwing strength with Katchin is equal to the Estimated energy released in a hypernova,crazy to think huh?

It should be noted that all characters who are relevant  to Base Goku scale to  Solar System Level+

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Potency

Worlsofkias

The most notable striking strength form comes from Goku clashing with Kid Buu within the large planet of the Kais.The clash on the planet was tearing the whole planet apart with ease. Keep in mind the planet has enough density to maintain the Z sword, which is a sword so heavy that it requires the strength of a SSJ 2 to pull it out which would more than enough strength to easily level or pull planets apart.

Going by the size of Kaoishin’s planet, this is what we got to confirm the theory of the planet having high density.

Kaioshin Planet

Area: Afterlife

Special Characteristics: The planet that the kaioshin live on. It’s distinguished as a place with a pink sky and numerous suns. It is a very sturdy planet, and cannot be damaged easily. However, it suffered damage during the battle between Goku and Majin Buu (pure).

Battles: Son Goku vs. Majin Buu (pure)

Events: Kaioshin brought Gohan here in order to draw out the Z Sword. Also, after having his seal broken, the Elder Kaioshin powered up Gohan. Furthermore, it became the site of the final battle with Majin Buu. (Daizenshuu 4, p.73)     

Now let’s see what we got for the size of the planet.

Kaioshin Kai = 197 pixels

Sun = 70 pixels

Kaioshin Kai/Sun = 2.814

Sun = 1,392,684 kilometers (its mean diameter)

Kaioshin Kai = 3,919,012.776 kilometers

Kaioshin Kai volume:‭6.019078922384506e28‬ m^3

Density of Planet:5,503 kg/m^3

Mass of the Kaioshin Main Planet::‭‭3.3122557e+32‬kg

Damn  the main  Kaioshin Planet has roughly 165.6 times  as much mass as our sun and almost as massive as R136a1, the most massive of known stars (230 to 345 M☉)

GBE calc ref by IreneBelserion69

Where U = GBE in joules, M = the mass of the body in question in kilograms, r = its radius in meters, and G = the gravitational constant of 6.67408×10^-11.

U=3GM^2/5R

U=0.00000000000667×:‭‭3.3122557+e32‬kg^2/‭‭‭1,959,506,388‬‬ mx5    

U=0.00000000002001×‭‭1.097103782218249e+65‬kg^2/‭‭9,797,531,940‬ m

U=‭2.195304668218716e+54‬/‭9,797,531,940‬

U=‭2.240671101316886e+44‬ Joules  or 2.24  Foe

GBE of Main Kaioshin Planet: 2.24 Foe(Large Star level+)

So yeah Goku and Kid Buu clashing with each other was indirectly causing damage to this massive planet.

As for Kid Buu, a lot of people use this statement from Goku about Kid Buu’s power that there’s enough Ki to blow up the earth over 10 times over however they completely ignore the context of Goku’s statements nor take into account Mass Energy times Faster than Light.

The Mass Energy of Earth is 5.4×10^41 Joules, that’s over 2.37  the GBE of the Sun blowing up the entire Earth at Light speed.  Kid Buu himself has the mass equivalent of that in a single Ki Blast which is extremely casual Star level and that’s merely going by Lightspeed explosions which they’re far faster than that.

To no one’s surprise, Kid Buu can bust planets and even destroy Earth.

Kid Buu is at least 100 Trillion c, Light travels at   299,792,458 m/s   or 300,000km/s , going by powerscaling, Kid Buu should have at least speed up to 2.99792458e+22 meters per second. Going by Mass Energy, Kid Buu should have an attack Potency at least up to 540 GigaFoe,  just 1/37th the baseline of Multi Solar System level  and this is merely bare minimum speed of 100 Trillion C

Time to see how strong Kid Buu really is.

This is from the flashback in which Kid Buu busted an entire Galaxy over a period of a few years.

Kid Buu Galaxy Bust

Galaxy diameter: 460.01 px

Galaxy diameter real: 100,000 Light years

Pixel: 217.387 light years

Red zone: 32.24 px (7008.7 ly)

www.convertunits.com/from/mete…

149,597,870,690.99997  meters=1 AU

www.convertunits.com/from/ligh…

63241.077088071  AU’s= One Light Year

 Light travels at   299,792,458 m/s  

6.630742166273387e+19  m/s  /299,792,458 m/s =221,177,751,118.5217 c 

Now for Mass Energy of  the  Sun

Mass Energy yield of the sun :1.8×10^47 Joules

3.981199520133e+58 joules= 9.5152952202e+42 megatons or 399.692  TeraFoe (Multi Solar System Level+)

Kid Buu’s Graudal Galaxy Destruction: 399.692  TeraFoe (Multi Solar System Level+)

And Goku can clash  evenly with a casual Muilt Solar System buster like Kid Buu

Buutenks casually scales far above   SSJ3  Goku and Kid Buu that by smashing the ki blast through the planet with one punch throw the energy ball so hard to put a hole in the planet like if it was butter.How  strong is Super Buu merged with Piccolo and Gotenks.The mass of Ki blasts would equal or greater to the mass of Planets or Stars depending on who’s firing the blasts themselves

Buutenks is easily FAR superior to Vegeta who can shoot his Final Flash into space at roughly 

Super Vegeta: 1/50th

FFSSJ Goku: 1/20th 

Yakon: 1/20th 

Cell Jr: 1/20th

Prefect Cell:1/10

Super Prefect Cell: 1x

Dabura/ Adult SSJ2 Gohan/ Eastern Supreme Kai: 1x

Fat Buu: 2 x casually, , 10 x full power enraged

Goku(Supressed ki) 1/10th base, 5x SSJ , 10 SSJ 2

Vegeta( Early Buu saga)1/10th base, 5x SSJ , 10X Majin Vegeta

Goten ( Pre ROAST): 1/1000th base, 1/20th SSJ

Trunks( Pre ROAST): 1/1000th base, 1/20th SSJ

Gotenks ( Pre ROAST) 5x

Evil Buu: 100x

Super Buu:20,000x

Goten ( Post ROAST): 1/100th base, 1/2th SSJ 

Trunks( Post ROAST) 1/100th base, 1/2th SSJ 

Vegeta( Massive post Zenkai) 50x base, 2,500x SSJ , 5,000xSSJ

Goku( full power ) 50xbase 2,500x SSJ, 5,000x SSJ 2, 20,000x SSJ3

Gotenks( Post ROAST) 50 X base, 2,500 x SSJ, 20,000x SSJ 3

Goku( full power/Post Zenkai ) 500xbase 25,000x SSJ, 50,000x SSJ 2, 200,000x SSJ3

Mystic Gohan: 100,000x 

Kid Buu: 200,000 x

Buutenks: 2,000,000x

Super Vegeta: 1/50th(14,064,516 c)

Buutenks: 2,000,000x(‭562,580,640,000,000‬c/‭1.686574328888131e23‬  m/s

Going by the frame about 25% of the earth’s diameter is present

Earth(25% framed):386px(‭3,187.5‬ km)

Hole punched through by Buutenks: 74px(‭611.1 km/611,100m)

Area destroyed by ki blast:‭373,443.21‬km^2

Depth of the Earth:12,750,000 m

Volume of Hole:‭4.7614009275e+18‬ m^3

Density of Earth:5503kg/m^3

Mass destroyed:‭2.62019893040325e+22‬ kg

‭1.68657e23‬ m/s

‭1.354389238092564e+65‬

1.354389238092564e+65 joule = 3.2370679687e+49 megaton [explosive]   or  1.354 ZettaFoe of TNT( Multi Solar System+)

 Buutenks Slaps Ki Blasts through Earth: 1.354 ZettaFoe of TNT( Multi Solar System Level+)

So yeah  Buutenks has roughly enough power to destroy about 1/7th of an entire Galaxy,  slightly stronger than Kid Buu’s suppressed power and SSJ3 Goku.  Note that the ki blast was fried from Gohan and note a normal Ki blast is weaker than Kamehameha wave. It’s safe to put Goku and Kid Buu at Galaxy level and Buutenks at Galaxy level+.  It’s safe to say that Buuhan is easily Multi Galaxy level via power scaling in his normal form.  This can be seen with Buutenks briefly clashing Goku  in their brief clash with Majin Buu weakening due to  the fusion running out.

note  to anyone claiming Super Buu>Goku SSJ3, Goku was confident he can beat Piccolo Buu who’s only slightly stronger than base  Super Buu,even denying the idea to fuse with Gohan and powering himself down.

 Goku did about as good of a job fighting Buutenks as Mystic Gohan did within the anime and manga which proves Mystic Gohan is relative to Goku

Then comes Buuhan, a far more powerful character than Super Buutenks, keep in mind  Super Buu was relative to Gotenks SSJ3

Yet was curb stomped by Ultimate Gohan.

So the power increase is even more drastic than that of Buutenks,ALOT more so considering the upcoming feat.

Buuhan) is capable of causing Galactic level reality warping as he attempted to create a rip in space that would’ve easily destroyed the planet and presumably everything within the Milky Way Galaxy and presumably a good chunk of the Northern Galaxy cluster. 

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/06/19/top-20-dbztard-lies-and-misinformation/

Buuhan’s claim is proven as Hyperbole. First of all the only area shown affected is Earth so that alone disproves your argument. Second of all you’re argument is further disproved by the fact the reality collapsing doesn’t even affect the Other World like even base Janemba’s feat so that alone completely discredits your argument. At least Fusion reborn shown us parts of Hell and Heaven token over , this feat doesn’t shown anywhere but earth affected. Third Kid Buu struggled to blow up galaxies, in fact in took Kid Buu at full power over  3 years to blow up just one Galaxy.   If you did the math correctly, at bare minimum, Buu would be 1,576,800 times below the level needed to Galaxy bust. At best Kid Buu is a Casual Multi Solar System buster to Nebula buster, he is nowhere near Universe busting. Buuhan at most is only 400 times the power level of Kid Buu which fails flat . 400 times Nebula buster level doesn’t even bring you 1/1,000th the power to level  a Galaxy let alone  Universe bust so it’s not supported by powerscaling either so the feat is entirely a dud and nothing more but Hyperbole from a desperate DBZtard.

Not to mention Beerus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buuhan so even assuming this Filler feat hold any weight, it’s negated by canon characters who are much stronger not even doing half of that power.

Yeah the dimensional walls argument isn’t a valid argument for Universe busting. Again by that argument, every power that involves dimensional wall breaking is a “Universe level feat”. I guess by your logic, Ichigo in Bleach is a Universal buster because his power is  “At a higher dimension”.  

Just because there is Multiple Universes, doesn’t mean there is a Multiverse buster, no one in DBZ remotely even comes close to Universe level let alone Multiverse tiers.

The My Little Pony has confirmed Multiverses both in the  comics and TV series, does that make them suddenly Multiverse ? Well they’re at least stronger than most of DBZ up until BoG or GT going by my last post relating to DBZ and MLP at the very least.

. AT stated that Kai Planets, Afterlife and Mortal world are all part of one Universe.  if Buuhan was a threat to the entire Universe, there would be dimensional walls tearing within other planets within the mortal half of the Universe like  Namek and  tears throughout the Afterlife and each of the 4 Kai’s planets as well as the Kaioshin realm, since Buuhan’s wave only seems to affect Earth and it’s backed by powerscaling and stronger villains like Bills showed nowhere near that level of claimed hype, the feat is entirely dismissed as Hyperbole.

However as of the recent recton by the Dragonball Super Anime ,Buuhan is confirmed to be Universe level.  All things that appear within Dragonball Z Kai is considered canon

https://aminoapps.com/c/dragonballz/page/blog/universal-kid-buu-narritive-lore-guides-and-feats/qk8T_Ruw0k6jMdmRxLRqmR1L522DLnB

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Daizenshuu#Daizenshuu_7

Now that we can confirm  the feat as canon, one has to ask, does this put Buuhan at Universe level?Let’s  find out.

As we know,statements=/=feats, that still stands

However canonical statements and not to mention  scaling from Beerus who’s  a Casual Universe buster helps back Super Vegito/Buuhan being near Universe level. Going by this ,  Buuhan is at least High Multi Galaxy level, if not Low Universe level as he intended to collapse the GBE of the Universe with dimensional tearing. Now here comes the Billion dollar question, how the fuck did Buuhan get so strong to commit so much damage.

As we noted, Kid Buu’s strongest feat is merely Multi Solar System level,  to be anywhere near Universal level from Multi Solar System level+  is over ‭1.6835503204e+34‬  times so safe to say while the feat is accepted as canon and accepted as Universal, it’s a Massive Outlier that doesn’t match any power scaling  or does it?

Remember the fusion with Gohan is what is increasing his power greatly.  Gohan  during the Raditz Saga went from that of a normal 5 year old kid to having roughly   Joules of force  in literal seconds during the battle of Raditz, this  power increase from Gohan is actually consistent throughout the series how he gets exponentially more powerful the angrier he gets, kinda like the Hulk,

Another thing backing this is Piccolo’s own Explosive Demon Wave he used in the 23rd Budokai Tournament  which absorbed all the Ki within the surrounding environment within the Island Nation Goku and Piccolo are battling in which was making his attack even more powerful, the Vice Shout Buu was doing looks pretty similar to how Piccolo Jr was gathering Ki but on a far greater scale

Afterwards, Goku mentions that not even a Fusion of himself and Vegeta would be enough to take down Beerus .While this statement isn’t enough to highlight a power gap between himself and Beerus as Vegito or Gogeta, it does imply that  they would be much closer to a suppressed Beerus.

According to Old Kai, however, Beerus was not as strong or evil as Majin Buu at the time the latter sealed him away.

Some further validity of potentially Multi Galaxy Level or even Universe level Buu is the statement that a Younger Beerus was weaker than Prime Majin Buu, this would imply Buuhan would be close to this range of power.

https://aminoapps.com/c/dragonballz/page/blog/universal-kid-buu-narritive-lore-guides-and-feats/qk8T_Ruw0k6jMdmRxLRqmR1L522DLnB

This is also  arguably backed by Kid Buu being able to hold back the Spirit Bomb I’ll have this blog  explain this.

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The argument stems from the Spirit Bomb. This Spirit Bomb is stated Many times to have Universal energy, and is emphasised many times across all platforms of it’s presentation.

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It’s stated by King Kai, that his voice can be heard throughout the entire Universe and he can gather energy all across it.

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It’s also stated by King Enma that the Bomb has energy from the Afterlife as well.

So this has Energy from both the Universe, and the Living world. The Universe in Dragonball is referred to as the Living world/Mortal world. So that’s energy from 1 Universe.

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So thus the author makes his intention for this to be Universe level bomb by stating it repeatedly (which is the same reason people consider current SSG Goku as Universe).

So this Bomb had energy from 2.2 OBSERVABLE Universes.

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Another statement saying the Bomb had Universal power.

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Even in Dragonball Super Anime and Manga repeat this and are stated to have the power of the entire Universe.

The main argument for Current SSG Goku being Universal stems from a Narrative perspective of the authors intending for SSG Goku to be Universe, via Multiple statements of how they will destroy the Universe entirely.

Given how many times the Genki dama was stated to have the power of the Entire Universe, this bomb falls in the exact same category of Narrative arguments. To say that Narrative arguments only work for DBS and not DBZ, is hypocritical and contradictory in Logic. I will tackle some context arguments after.

Is it possible for the Bomb to be Universal? If it had energy from the Universe, does that mean it is Universal? What about Buuhan’s feat? Doesn’t that cap Kid Buu? We check the Lore now. And Progress into Buuhans feat later.

Lore/Guide Side

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From the lore or Dragonball, Majin Buu was stated to be stronger than Young GOD Beerus, who at the time could destroy the Kaioshin realm. At this point in time, elder Kai only had knowledge of Fat Buu, and he specifies the Buu NOW, which was Fat Buu. From lore, Fat Buu is 1/5 Universal Minimum, as the Kaioshin Realm spans 1/10 of the Living and Afterlife Combines as explained before, which equates to 1/5 Universal.

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We also have El Manga Legendario which SPECIFICALLY states that Majin Buu has the power to destroy an entire Universe. So from Lore a version of Majin Buu is approaching, if not already at the level of power required to destroy a Universe.

The source is written by Bird Studio and Shuiesha, which is Toriyama’s own personal studio, which is actually more reliable than even the Daizenshuu, and has had his supervision on the Materials as well. This is also the same Canon source that everyone uses to claim Cell is a Solar System lvl. The same guide now says Majin Buu is a Universe buster.

The Feat

Firstly we are going to go over a few things about the spirit bomb, since the feat is based around that.

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It is stated by Goku that he requires A LITTLE bit of Earths Energy, to create a Spirit Bomb to defeat Oozaru Vegeta.

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The Narrator himself stated that it is infact Earth Alone which provides this energy.

So what? How much power can Earth Produce?

Firstly, it is stated that a power level of 10,000 can destroy a Planet, this includes Earth, as Earth is classified as a Small Planet (in fiction, science and in Dragonball).

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Secondly, Vegeta was weakened up to this point. Now vegeta AFTER he got his Tail cut off, has enough power to no Diff Krillin

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After reverting to his base state from Oozaru, he still had the power to beat a full power Krillin

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Krillin was stated at this point in time had a power level of 1,700

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Oozaru is a 10× Boost, meaning Oozaru Vegeta had a minimum power level of 10× 1700 = 17,000. Goku was confident that this Bomb could defeat Vegeta.

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A power level of 10,000 can destroy a Planet as stated by El Manga Legendario

Destroying a Planet >>> Destroying Small Planet = Earth

That means Earth can litrally Produce 2 times the amount of Energy required to destroy it, with ONLY a Portion of Earth’s energy, not even all of it.

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This Bomb against Kid Buu had the power of the Entire Universe. And not even a Portion. ALL of the energy of the Universe and the afterlife and the Kaioshin Realm.

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This Bomb had 2.2 Observable Universes supplying it. And we have seen that the Spirit Bomb is at least 3× the power needed to destroy the source.

2.2×2 = 4.4 × the power required to destroy an Observable Universe.

This means the Bombs Power is Universal in potency.

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I could even take this a step further and use what Dragonball Super has shown with the Genki Dama

This is a Spirit Bomb is stronger than SSB Kaioken × 20 Goku. Android 17, base Frieza, Base Gohan, Piccolo, Tien, Krillin, Android 18 and Master Roshi were the Supliers of this bomb. Android 17 is a SSB level fighter and would Solo the rest of the contributors, (at least in the form they contributed in).

Basicly means Android 17 provided over half the Energy for the Bomb. The Bomb is SSB Kaioken×20 lvl if not higher. Meaning Android 17 Provided SSB Kaioken×10 LEVELS of Power, as Just a SSB tier fighter.

That means the Genki Dama is 10× the source providers!!!

So if 2.2 observable Universes are the suppliers of energy to the Genki dama against Buu, it would be 2.2×10 =22 observable Universes worth potency.

That means on a 3D Universe Scale, the Bomb ranges from 4-22 Universes in Potency. Ofcourse we don’t knoe how Dragonball scales since it isn’t linear and Plot based. Do NOT Confuse this with Multi-Universal which is 4D scale (Universe+)

How is Kid Buu Universal?

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This is the Spirit Bomb that Frieza was up against. He couldn’t push back this Bomb at all, yet he could survive the attack. Which means Frieza’s Durability > than the Bombs Attack potency.

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Kid Buu could litrally Pushed this Bomb back, meaning he also had the power to survive this attack based of Frieza’s performence. This Bomb also had the power of Goku as well with this blast. So SSJ Goku + Spirit Bomb Killed Buu, not the spirit bomb itself.

Goku had Zero Stamina and wasn’t even pushing the Bomb against Frieza, so Goku being Fatigued against Buu is not a factor. In order to Resist the Spirit bomb, it requires More than the power to endure it according to Frieza’s feat. Thus the same applies for Kid Buu.

So Kid Buu has Universal levels of Power as he could compete with the Universal Spirit Bomb and thus is a Universal feat.

There is a far more indepth version of this by Magnum here. http://aminoapps.com/p/91qdsz

Does Buuhan Contradict this?

So a counter argument would be to say Kid Buu cannot be Universal since Buuhan isn’t Universal, due to his feat of warping alternate Dimensions.

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This is the feat, where he warps alternate dimensions with Hacks. So, again lets cover the previous case of this same attack, just like we did the spirit Bomb.

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So Normal Super Buu, could create a Hole in Dimensions by screaming. And only Super Buu tier fighters can do this, since Gotenks needed to go SSJ3 to perform the same feat, in which they were both roughly on the same level.

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The name of the technique is “Open Hole in the dimension”. And only people with High Power levels can use this. Meaning this specific Hack has CORRELATION to power level.

Buu at this time was stronger than a Solar System buster (Super Perfect Cell) and yet only could make a Large Door Sized Portal. So lowballing :

Solar System level DC = Large Door sized Portal.

I’m sure you are aware of the difference between A Door and Solar system potencies (lol).

Now lets Look at Buuhans version.

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This technique is stated to be the same technique used by Super Buu earlier. Except in Buuhans Case, he was going to make a Universe sized portal, or Multi Galaxy Galaxy sized Portals across the Universe bear minimum.

Lets reitterate.

Large Door sized Portal = Solar System lvl DC

Multi Galaxy sized Portal = FAR BEYOND Multi Galaxy lvl DC

As you can see by Comparison, to create Multi Galaxy Galaxy sized portals requires far far beyond the power of Multi Galaxy DC. At least equivilent to the diffrrebce between Door -> Solar System level. So by no means is this a Limiting feat to Kid Buu.

Buuhans feat Proves he has higher DC than Multi Galaxy level. It is not limited, so he can be anything above it (to a reasonable degree). So if Kid Buu is Universal, then Buuhan is above Universal. But we lowball him to Universal as well since we don’t know how far above he is.

It is a Multi Galaxy level Hack Feat, which requires MORE THAN Multi Galaxy Levels of Destructive Power to accomplish.

People have to remember that Kid Buu was heavily suppressed throughout the fight with SSJ3 Goku and was holding back.  It’s not until his life was threatened did he use his full power.

Keep in  mind  that the same Majin Buu was able to battle against all the Supreme Kais at once with even the weakest Supreme Kai being comparable to Super Perfect Cell’s power level with the Grand Supreme Kai having fought a younger Moro which should just put their powers millions of years ago just below Gods of Destruction tier , note when he fought Kid Buu, he was far weaker having lost most of his power in the Moro fight so it’s safe to say Kid Buu is arguably Muilt Galactic level via powerscaling,.

Let’s  also factor just how many people potentially exist within the realm of Heaven and hell to back whether the multipliers for  Spirit Bomb and if it adds up.In merely our own 10,000 year existence on earth 108 Billion people have lived and this is merely 10,000 years. The DB Universe seems to have the same length of time as our Universe , doing the math, over 《1.4904e17‬  living beings existed on Earth alone since the beginning of time,all now    in Heaven.

Now multiply that by 9 Planets, 400 Billion Solar Systems and 170 Billion Galaxies, this is roughly1.8242496‬e+41‬ living beings now dead within the Heaven and hell realms.  An Average human has roughly 100 joules of energy, this would give  the  spirit bomb roughly ‭ ‭‭1.8242496‬e+43 times  mupitler Goku’s power level.  

 You also have to factor the massive boost of power from non human races like Namekians which despite being only 100 of them in the entire Universe 7  each have power levels comparable to Sayains who are superior to the feats of a  casual Piccolo and full power Master Roshi at around  1.254701000939191e+34‬Joules

You also have to factor the entire Sayain Race which numbers at least 50-500 Million who each are are around Raditz level  who is alone far superior to  Goku and Piccolo who were casual moonbusters with the attack potency of over 1.254701000939191e+34‬Joules

As well as many of Goku’s  former villains who range from Large Planet level+ to Solar System level like Cell even giving up their energy

Mind you Goku can clash evenly with Kid Buu who was a casual Muilt Solar System Buster

3.981199520133e+58x‭‭1.8242496‬e+43 

‭7.262701632122817e+101‬

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/01/04/the-scale-of-universe-busting/

 Goku’s Universal Spirit Bomb against Kid Buu: 7.263 GigaUniFoe(High Universe Level)

So yeah Universe busting is plausible  however this doesn’t scale to anyone but Super Vegito and maybe Buuhan who  did actual Universe busting feats,

You can even argue Goku is at least Multi Galactic as he clashed  evenly with Kid Buu, especially  if you’re comparing Fusion Reborn Goku who shook the entire Afterlife but  we’re not using Movie feats here however for the most part Movie feats usually are based on canon power levels and silmair feats to canon so if you want to argue Goku being Galactic or even Multi Galactic, you could possibly argue using this ground but i prefer not to.

user uploaded image

However the real destructive power of Kid Buu is when he was  compared to Beerus Directly (Abelt a much younger and weaker beerus)  who  can destroy the entire Kaioshin Realm which is  officially confirmed to be 1/10th the size of the entire Universe 7 . Yeah he’s not merely speaking of the relatively large planet in the center of this Mirco Universe or Dwarf Universe , he’s talking about the entire Dwarf Universe.

Let’s  go back to my calc I made on Universe 7’s true size and use that to scale to the Kaioshin realm which orbits the main universe like a moon and also going to add the GBE of the  DBZ Universe and our Universe for comparison.

As we already know, the borders of Universe level  is the bare minimum value for the observable universe was calculated as a lower border instead (The PSRJ0348+0432 was used as a base).  The Bare minimum for UniFoe which is  a form I made is roughly 2.825x10e+92 Joules or 2.825 TenaexaFoe, before  we get to the DBZ calc, let’s do the potential GBE of our world first.

www.space.com/34928-the-univer…

www.space.com/24073-how-big-is…

Let’s also assume the cubic size of the Universe for density and give each 92 Billion Light Years the same density of our Universal plane. It should be well noted that current scientific models believe that the Universe is flat meaning the Universe would be disk shaped like a galaxy.

Going by this formula, the size of our Universe should be 23.5 Trillion Light Years Wide and Long and having a thickness of at least 235 Billion Lightyears giving it the volume of 1.083314312985248e+88 m^3 or 1.14506413233621e+72 Cubic Light Years

Observable Universe with Measurements 01.png

Contrast this with the Observable Universe which is 93 Billion Light Years in diameter and has a volume of  4×10^80 m^3 or 4.228008489853763e+64 Cubic Light Years which is 27,082,879 timers smaller than the volume of the actual size of the Universe, you can fit roughly 27 Million Observable Universes inside the Diameter of the Actual Universe. That means the weight of the actual Universe is roughly 1.62×10^60 kg

High Universe Level:  The ability to completely destroy the entire 3D Physical Universe which is at least 23.7 Trillion Light Years wide and weighing over 1.2e+60kg  or to destroy roughly 27 Million Observable Universes inside the Diameter of the Actual Universe.

Minimum needed to achieve this power:  7.625e+99 Joules  or 27 MegaUniFoe

www.convertunits.com/from/mete…

149,597,870,690.99997 meters=1 AU

www.convertunits.com/from/ligh…

63241.077088071 AU’s= One Light Year

 93.7 billion light years – The diameter of the observable universe

Size of the DB Universe: 23.25 Trillion Light Years or 2.199620631786262e+29 meters

DB Universe Volume:2.340944612800386e+117 m^3 or 2.478298321316967e+101 Cubic Light Years(2.160909889900313e+29 or 216.09 Octillion times larger than our Universe)

DB Universe mass:1.39654×81 kg

GBE calc ref by IreneBelserion69

Where U = GBE in joules, M = the mass of the body in question in kilograms, r = its radius in meters, and G = the gravitational constant of 6.67408×10^-11.

DBZ Universe diameter:2.199620631786262e+29 meters

DB Universe mass:1.39654×81 kg

U=3GM^2/5R

U=0.00000000000667×1.39654e81 kg^2/‭1.09981e+29‬ mx5    

U=0.00000000002001×‭‭‭1.9503239716e+162‬‬kg^2/‭‭‭‭5.49905e+29‬m

U=‭‭3.9025982671716e+151‬‬/‭5.49905e29‬m

U=‭2.240671101316886e+44‬ Joules  or 2.24  Foe

‭7.096859034145171e+121‬ Joules

GBE of  Universe  7:‭7.096859034145171e+121( High Universe Level+)‬

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/01/04/the-scale-of-universe-busting/

  Now for the scaling of the Kaioshin Realm. Given the verse is 1/10th the Universe, the diameter of the Kaioshin Realm is around 2.325 Trillion Light Years wide.Now for the size, mass and GBE of the Kaioshin Realm.

http://www.convertunits.com/from/mete…

149,597,870,690.99997 meters=1 AU

http://www.convertunits.com/from/ligh…

63241.077088071 AU’s= One Light Year

Diameter of  Kaioshin Dwarf Universe:‭2.199619831810326e+28‬ meter

Volume of Kaioshin Dwarf Universe:‭1.06430639629207e+85‬ m^2

So yeah the Kaioshin Realm is roughly  10.643 Trillion times the size of our Universe in Volume, so this “Dwarf Universe” is alot bigger than our Universe.This would make  the Kaioshin Realm roughly ‭1.72368‬×10^73 kg

GBE calc ref by IreneBelserion69

Where U = GBE in joules, M = the mass of the body in question in kilograms, r = its radius in meters, and G = the gravitational constant of 6.67408×10^-11.

DBZ Universe diameter:2.199620631786262e+29 meters

DB Universe mass:‭1.72368‬×10^73 kg

U=3GM^2/5R

U=0.00000000000667×‭1.72368‬e73 kg^2/‭1.11e28‬ mx5    

U=0.00000000002001×‭‭‭‭2.9710727424e146‬ ‬‬kg^2/‭5.55e28‬m

U=‭5.9451165575424e+135‬/5.49905e29‬m

‭1.071192172530162e+107‬=1.0711 PetaMuitlFoe

GBE of  Kaioshin Realm: 1.0711 PetaMuitlFoe ( High Universe Level+)‬

Yep thanks to Dragon Ball Super, Kid Buu goes from barely Galactic Level to  Universe level, ablet should be noted  that Kid Buu’s power was suppressed during his fight with SSJ3  as he was holding back, so SSJ3 Goku doesn’t scale to him.  Either Way  the Spirit Bomb Goku used to kill Buu and Buuhan’s Vice Shout/Super Vegito all scale to these feats.

Speed /Reaction speed

One of the most dishonest and disingenuous arguments DBZtards make in general is this hyperbolic claim Goku is Light-speed within Dragon Ball.

the most common arguments used to  argue this power  is the fact Goku dodged Solar Flare, which is no doubt a light-speed move at the very least.However let’s look closely at how Goku “dodged ” that move. 

Do tell me if Goku can dodge Light, why does he need sunglasses  ?  After all,  if one moves faster than light, they wouldn’t need sunglasses to block a light-speed ability right  ?

 Also note when Goku says “Here it comes ” ,meaning Goku  reacted to Tien, not the speed of the attack.  The attack might be light-speed, but Tien sure as hell wasn’t in this arc and neither was Goku.

If anything  Goku didn’t dodge Solar Flare the first time it was used did he ?    Nor  did Roshi who at the time  equaled Budokai 22nd Goku’s power and speed. Funny how Goku was unable to dodge it the first time and how Roshi who is just as fast as Goku  couldn’t dodge it either.This proving that 

Though some would try to argue that Goku disappeared from Kirlin’s sight in an attempt to argue this point  Goku is FTL. However they fail to realize you don’t need to be FTL to disappear from the human eye. 

Given the average speed of a normal human is    3.5 to 4.5 miles per hour with their reaction speed being dozens of times faster. The fastest shown speed from humans is  44.7 km/h (12.4 m/s or 27.78 mph) with maximum reaction speed being at best 201 mph or the literal speed of a blink of an eye.

Goku blitzing Kirin isn’t impossible considering the fact Kirin is at least as fast and strong as Mercenary Tao’s speed.

Not that it matters either given the same manga series have smaller gaps in power levels than Kirin and Goku’s yet the character can easily speedblitz and curbstomp the opposing character with little effort as seen with Cui and Vegeta,Dorida vs Vegeta and Zarbon vs Vegeta. Either way, this dispels the myth Goku in Dragon Ball is Faster than the speed of light.

Another commonly used argument of FTL Goku and Dragon Ball characters is the argument Goku can dodge LASERS .Note this is by far the dumbest argument I’ve heard from DBZtards on the topic of speed.

Enlarge this image Click to see fullsize

By this logic, Bleach characters around the rank of Vice Captains are Faster than Light because they dodged Ceros which are laser like attacks.

Or One Piece characters are FTL because One Piece characters can dodge Paascfista lasers which  makes them FTL.

Lasers =/=speed of  light. The only way a Laser would be Light speed is if that laser has the properties of pure light. Given the lasers fired at Goku come from tech that is nowhere close to that producing light speed ability, it’s safe to say that laser isn’t FTL and that DBZtards are grasping for straws. 

Enlarge this image Click to see fullsize

Top 20 DBZtard lies and misinformation part 1 4470102-4388449422-d112.

Another argument  bought up to the defense of the Light speed  ability is the fact that Goku caught a dragonball in Mid Air easily and DBZtards claim each Dragon Ball was moving at 1/7th the speed of light.  Nevermind the fact that claim is duibous  on it’s own given nothing proves Dragon Balls move anywhere near that fast and let’s foucs on the feat itself. 

So even by the feat, it’s  rubbish and comes nowhere close to  actual lightspeed movement.  

Hell in fact one can seriously argue whether DBZ characters are even FTL at all given  Goku struggled to run across Snake Way which is only 1,000,000 km.

Hell this argument is deeply contradicted by the fact that Cell Saga characters like Piccolo fused with Kami( Who are light years stronger than Kid Goku) were unable to evade Solar Flare.  So by DBZtard logic, Kid Goku 22n Budokai>>>>>>Piccolo fused with Kami in speed

 However to be fair, it’s  established in DBZ that  DBZ characters do have proven FTL reaction speed feats and  can move FTl in short bursts much like a Cheetah can run very fast at short bursts across a short distance

However, that’s  DBZ characters past the Saiyan Saga. No one in Dragon Ball ever moved faster than the speed of light. In fact Goku vs Mr Popo prove this in both the manga and anime.

At no point Kid Goku ever blitzed Mr Popo.If anything,  Mr Popo was making short work of Post King Piccolo Arc Goku ( Who mind you  got a Zenkai boost from drinking Ultra Divine Water)

Hell even Kid Goku admits moving at Lighting speeds alone is impossible  for him.Funny how DBZtards who love to quote things  miss this crucial quote debunking their wank, either out of sheer ignorance of their source material or out of sheer dishonesty.

In the anime especially, there was a filler proving Dragon Ball Goku was slower than Lightning as a kid

That being said, DBZ characters are ridiculously fast.  Case and point is Piccolo’s Ki Blast that blew up the moon. As  i noted ,  Budokai 23rd Goku, Piccolo’s casual Ki Blast and Roshi’s Max Power Kamaheaha wave are in speeds ranging from 25% SoL to 31.25% SoL.

Raditz is far faster than both of them as he casually  bltized them.

And  dodged Piccolo’s Special Beam cannon, ablet it Barely.How fast is Radtiz and how fast is the Special Beam cannon.

Keep in mind the anime dub note this attack is Light Speed explicitly and states outright that Radtiz is faster than the speed of Light

A claim backed by Piccolo’s weaker Ki Blast reaching the moon in mere seconds.

Even the manga backs this with Piccolo surprised at Raditz’s speed.  How much faster than Light is Raditz?

Goku’s Height:639px(1.75 m)

Raditz Height:663px( 1.82m)

Radtiz:575px(1.82m)

Distance Raditz moved:148px(0.257 m)

Now for the distance Special Beam cannon was coming at Raditz

Raditz:117px(1.82m)

Piccolo’s distance from Raditz:671px(10.44 m)

Now for the speed of Raditz.

Range Piccolo’s  Special Beam covered: 10.44 m

Distance Raditz traveled:0.257 meters

Speed of projectile:299,792,458  m/s

Now for the speed

299,792,458  m/sx 10.44 m+0.257m/10.44m =‭307,172,406.439272‬ m/s  or 

Raditz dodges Special Beam Cannon:1.025 c(Barely FTL)

Raditz is FTL, barely, this is pretty much the expected result as he was grazed by the attack and it looks like it took all his speed to avoid the attack.  Still a benchmark for just how much faster characters become overtime.

To note, DBZ speed feats as well as Super feats are based more on power scaling than Dragon Ball as characters are moving FTL casually and their speed can only be measured by reaction/combat speeds

Another impressive speed feat would be Goku easily dodging Nappa who should be 5 times faster than Raditz.Proving power levels scale up speed.

Distance between Nappa and Goku:3px(‭0.061 m)

Goku’s height:86px(1.75m)

Goku moved at least 2 meters from Nappa, bitlzing him entirely. Nappa should be 5 times faster  than Raditz who’s 1.025, now for the speed of Base Goku.

Rang Nappa was at :‭0.061 m

Distance Goku traveled:2meters

Speed of Nappa :‭1,536,436,347.25‬  m/s

Now for the speed

‭1,536,436,347.25‬ m/sx 0.061 m+ 2 m/0.061 m =‭51,911,398,552.16803‬ m/s    or  ‭‭173.1577c

Goku’s Base speed(Saiyan Saga): 173.157c(Massively FTL)

One would question why a massive jump in speed all of a sudden, but remember Cui and Vegeta were near even in power levels but Vegeta effortlessly bltized him and that’s with a power gap far smaller than Nappa and Goku.

Nappa when he powers up scales to this speed as well.  Anyways let’s power scale.

Base Sayain Saga Goku=173.157c

Kaiokenx2 Goku=346.31c

Kaiokenx3 Goku=519.47c

Now onto the Namek Saga speed. As we know Goku’s power level in Kaioken X3 is roughly 21000, this scales to Dodoria’s speed as well, it should max out at roughly 24,000-27,000 going by his power level of 8,000-9,000 with his Ki output tripling here. 

The Ginyu Force are casually far above this speed by miles so they should at bare minimum be around 1,000c each or in the Kiloluminal range but the question is how much faster is Goku to them.

Goku moved faster than Bruter who was the supposed Fastest person in the Universe..

Well ignoring Frieza

Captain Ginyu

And the Supreme Kais.

Given Ki level=Speed, it’s safe to power scale speed from there.

Bruter with a power level around 45,000 should be moving at least 1,000 c if not faster as he’s much faster than Recoome despite being the same power level.

It should be noted that while it’s fair to power scale speed by power level, there are obvious speed and power gaps even against people with fairly silmair power levels. Case and point Cui and Vegeta were around 18,000 and 21,000 respectively which isn’t that  big of a gap yet Vegeta effortlessly speed blitzed him.  

We’re going to do two calcs to establish Saiyan Saga/Namek Saga speed

Since we’re counting anime feats as extended canon(excluding Anime only arcs),we’re going to count Goku’s intangible feat against Recoome and Bruther, both are at least 1,000c.

In the anime, Goku is moving so much faster than Bruter and Jeice that he appears intangible and not only does Ki blast fail to him, he even no-sells punches from them.  How fast is he moving?

Going by the frames here, Goku is moving so fast that Jeice phases through him as if he was intangible.

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/12/12/how-strong-is-kenshrio/

The closest feat I’ve done that I used that had silamir speed  feats was my feet back with Kenshiro’s respect thread. Liu Zongwu dodged a strike from Kasumi Kenshrio by a Hair’s length which is 181 micrometers.  Goku is dodging their attack by micrometers and moving so fast that Burter and Jeice think he’s intangible.

Distance of attack:4mm or 0.004m

Jeice’s  speed: 1,000c  or  299,792,458,000m/s 

Distance travel: At least 1 meter

299,792,458,000m/s/s x0.004m+1m/ 0.004=‭74,948,114,500,000‬ m/s or ‭250,000‬c

Goku’s Base Namek Saga speed: 250,000c(Massively FTL+Kiloluminal)

Now doing scaling, this would put Kaiokenx2 Goku at 500,000c, At Kaioken 10x, he should be at 2,500,000 c. Given base Frieza is around a power level of 530,000, his base speed should be at the very least ‭1,472,222.222c

One of the most impressive speed feats from Goku is him leaping across Namek within less than a second.

This literal 4-hour long fight in the anime around the 3-hour mark is where Frieza made the infamous “5 minutes” claim before Namek explodes. At around 2:32:38 of the fight, Frieza makes the declaration that Namek would explode in  5 minutes, at the end of the video which is around  4:07:32, Goku still has about 2 minutes to escape Namek

Meaning 3 minutes within DBZ=‭‬ 1:55:00 or 93 minutes  in real time.

That means for each minute Frieza and Goku fight, it feels like  31 minutes have passed, meaning that   for each second perceived by Fireza and Goku,  almost a whole minute  or 51.6 seconds goes by.  This means for every split second attack they’re doing, they’re moving roughly‭0.0086111111111111‬ seconds in speed.

Meaning Fireza can split apart the entire diameter of Namek at the bare minimum speed of ‭0.0086111111111111‬‬ seconds.

Fireza mind you is doing this even faster than you think as he was FTE to Goku. Merely ignoring power scaling( we get more into the speed of Goku and Frieza in speed feats) to go Faster than eye to face, you need at the very least   7.67 to  38.86 times faster than the person perceiving your speed.

Mind you Goku can cross the entire Planetary diameter of Namek in a second to our perception which is about  58 times faster than a second, given Namek’s size at 142,000km, this is roughly 47% the speed of light alone if scaled to normal human senses and speed but since 5 minute long fights to Goku literally feel like almost two hours, his perception of speed is much faster than that.

Moving at ‭0.0086111111111111‬seconds on a planet with a diameter of ‭142,278,000 m/s‭, this would give Goku’s casual speed post Ginyu fight around ‭16,522,606,451.61292‬  or ‭55.11  c.

If Frieza base is  1,472,222.222c,Goku in base should be roughly ‭8,244,444.432‬c or ‭2,471,622,261,113,694‬ m/s, meaning Goku actually traveled across Namek in roughly 1/‭17,372,513.643th of a second moving at his speed.

Goku’s reaction speed:  142,272,000 m/17 Microseconds  or ‭2.472 Femtoseconds

To  give you a clue how fast these reactions are femtosecond is to a second as a second is to about 31.71 million years; a ray of light travels approximately 0.3 μm (micrometers) in 1 femtosecond, a distance comparable to the diameter of a virus.  BTW this is his speed and reactions in the Frieza saga alone.

So  now you know why  5 minutes during the fight with Frieza seems so long of a time, we’re talking about characters who can see rays of natural light only across the space of a virus. Not anything too noteworthy speed wise but it makes sense.

However one of the fastest quantifiable feats in DBZ is Goku and Fireza  moving too fast for King Kai to even see them move,just how fast is that?

The Namekian spaceship managed to travel from Earth to Jupiter within a split second. The distance between Earth and Jupiter is 365 million miles. The speed of the Namekian spaceship is 1962.37xFTL or 1,962 times the speed of light, only 1/12th the speed of the Saiyan Space Pods overall.

Namekian Spaceship speed:1,962c(Massively FTL+Kiloluminal)

It took Bulma , Kririn and Gohan 37 days to get to Namek using the same spaceship that can travel to Jupiter within a second.

365,000,000 miles per secondx60 seconds 60 minutes 24 hoursx37 days=1,166,832,000,000,000 miles traveled

1,166,832,000,000,000 miles traveled/ 6 Trillion miles=194.4 Light years

Going by the speed of a Sayain’s space pod, it would take only 2 days and from a space pod on the level to reach Namek.

Goku’s space pod is much slower than the Saiyan space pods Vegeta and Nappa used considering it took 6 days with his space pod to reach Namek, which is still much faster than Bulma’s space pod. 

37/6=6.166666666666667

6.166666666666667×1962.37=12,101.150842x FTL or 12,101 times the speed of light.

Goku’s Space Pod speed:12,101c(Massively FTL,Kiloluminal)

Now for the distance between Earth and Planet Frieza #79

Click to advance to the next page!

It took 18 days for Saiyan Space ships to reach Frieza planet #79. Given the ships move at 3 lightyears per hour. That means the spaceship traveled a distance of 1,296 Light years.

http://www.dragonballencyclopedia.com…

Going the DBZ timeline, Frieza called in the Ginyu’s on Age 762 December 20th, the Ginyu’s arrived at Age 762 December 24th. A period of 4 days. Meaning that Planet Frieza #79 is only 288 Light Years apart from Namek. This is further supported by the fact Vegeta healed around Age 762 December 13th and left for Namek the following day and arrived at Age 762 December 18th. The same day as Gohan, Bulma and Kirin.

Now that we got a consistent speed pattern going, we can now determine how fast Goku is. 

Therefore going by the data, power scaling and data as well as feats, speed is as high as one’s power level.

For King Kai to not be able to track Goku and Frieza’s speed despite tracking ships 26,841 times the speed of Light,they are going far faster than the ships.

If Fireza  with a power level of  530,000 is ‭1,472,222.222c, then Fireza at his Final form is roughly ‭333,333,332.83 c  while Goku is roughly ‭416,666,666.c  which would make sense why King Kai can’t sense them.

Goku and Fireza’s maximum speed:‭333,333,332.83 c -‭416,666,666.c

(Massively FTL/Megaluminal)

Damn that’s fast, to give you context of how fast this is, Speed needed to cross the Solar System in  333.33 Microseconds, that’s not just fast, this is insanely fast.

Casual laser dodging is something Vegeta can do even when weighed down by 400 times Gravity. Further proof that DBZ characters are Massively FTL.

Not much speed feats within the Cell Saga side from Vegeta’s Final Flash but the attack is nowhere near as fast compared to what i calced. Around the Cell Saga is where they ceased using Power levels canonically so we have to go by power scaling.

Android 19 and 20:Fireza tier( ‭333,333,332.83 c )

Android 17 and 18:3.33 Billion c

Imperfect Cell:6.66 Billion c

Semi Perfect Cell:33.3 Billion c

Perfect Cell suppressed:333 Billion c

Perfect Cell full power: 3.3 Trillion c

Super Perfect Cell: 165 Trillion c

Super Perfect Cells by power scaling should be fast enough to travel potentially entire distances of Galaxies overtime. 

Likely More so with Instant Transmissions which  he used to escape the Otherworld  after self destructing within King Kai’s planet.This makes Cell a considerable threat to the Universe, especially with his infinite ability to grow stronger.

While Instant Transmission isn’t speed(teleportation=/=speed), it can be used within combat  which gives Goku enhanced reaction speeds, During the battle with Cell,Goku uses it to narrowly evade Cell’s Kamhehaha wave which was close to hitting him, Instant transmissions can help Goku enhance his already very high reaction speeds and movement speeds.

Even hitting Cell with the best Kamehameha Wave in the entire series.

Instant Transmission can also travel the distance between New Namek and Earth the same time it takes to finish a conversation

Which makes the original claim of it only moving at the speed of light laughable


Especially when Radtiz alone shits on Lightspeed 

As Namek is hundreds of light years away from Earth and would require at least   194 lightyears per second  to instantly go to Namek  to Earth.

Instant Transmission can also break through dimensional barriers as Goku used it to teleport to the Otherworld so it can potentially travel entire Universe lengths instantly giving Instant transmission literal Infinite speed.Not a speed feat but too awesome to ignore in this list.

This is best seen with the Supreme Kai teleporting them to the Kaioshin realm which is a Micro Universe 1/10th the size of our Universe that’s outside the Roache Limit of our Universe.

Point being, Goku doesn’t need to sense Ki in order to keep up with someone. Especially after transforming into a SSJ, his senses are still very superhuman. In fact, Goku, when not able to see, doesn’t even mention using Ki to sense someone – just the currents on the air.

In the Buu Saga, Gotenks casually flies around the world  many times within a second, a casual FTL feat. Gotenks is at least 10 times stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta who is ten times more powerful than Cell Saga Gohan and Super Perfect Cell. This would make the speed scale within the arc look like this 

Super Perfect Cell: 165 Trillion 

Semi Perfect Cell: 33.3 Billion c

Perfect Cell:3.3 Trillion c

Super Perfect Cell/Dabura/ Adult SSJ2 Gohan/ Eastern Supreme Kai:3.3 Trillion c

Fat Buu:/Goku(Suppressed ki) /Vegeta( Early Buu saga):33 Trillion c

Goten/Trunks( Pre ROAST):6.66 Billion c

Gotenks ( Pre ROAST):33 Trillion c

Super Buu:66 Quadrillion c

Vegeta( Massive post Zenkai):16.5 Quadrillion c

Goku( full power )/Gotenks( Post ROAST) 66 Quadrillion c

Goku( full power/Post Zenkai )660 Quadrillion c

Mystic Gohan: 330 Quadrillion c

Buutenks: 6.6 Quintillion c

However the most impressive speed feat by far is Kid Buu destroying a whole galaxy within 2-3 years.

Milky Way  Galaxy length:‭9.46086856e+17‬ km  or  9.46086856e+20 m

Area of the Milky Way Galaxy::‭‭8.950803390959647‬e+35 km^2  or 8.950803390959647‬e+41 m^2

‭4.733743395487706e-16‬

/299792458 m/s=‭9.467486790975412e+18‬ c  or  9.467 Quintillion C (Massively FTL+)

Kid Buu’s speed:9.467 Quintillion c(Massively FTL+/Exaluminal)

Kid Buu’s speed is frighteningly fast,  going by scaling .Kid Buu can potentially cross the entire Observable Universe within 0.3275 seconds,  that’s frightening to say the least.

Worse with instant Transmission, he can even cross other dimensions and even as far as Other Universes to terrorize.  The infamous meme”THE WHOLE UNIVERSE IS GOING TO DIE” Isn’t too far off given how fast Kid Buu can move.

And then you have BUuhan who can affect the entire Universe almost instantly with his Ki.  This puts Buuhan’s attack speed at around Quniltltions of times the speed of Light.

Dragon Ball Z Tiering.

Original tiering.

Human level: 5 to 8…

Peak Human: 8 to 10

Wall level: 10 to 12.5

Small Building level:12.5 to 15

Building level: 25 to 50

City Block level: 50 to 100

Muilt City Block level: 100 to 150

Town level : 150 to 180

Large Hill/ Small City Level : 180 to 210

Smalll Mountain/ Medium City level : 210 to 250

Mountain /Large City level : 250 to 275

Large Mountain/Small Island level: 270 to 300

Hamalaya Size Mountain/ Island Level : Power level 300 to 330

Muilt Mountain level/ Large Island level: Power level 330 to 360

Small Mountain range/ Small Country Level: Power level 360 to 400

Mountain Range/Country Level : Power level 400 to 430

Large Mountain Range/ Large Country level: Power level 430 to 460

Small Continent level:Power level 460 to 500

Continent level: Power level 500 to 600

Large Continent level: Power level 600 to 700

Muilt Continent level: Power level 700 to 800

Moon level : Power level 800 to 1,000

Small Planet Level: Power level 1,000 to 2,000

Planet level: Power level 2,000 to 10,000

Muilt Planet level: 10,000 to 100,000

Large Planet level: 100,000 to 1,000,000

Brown Dwarf level :1,000,000 to 10,000,000

Red Dwarf level =10,000,000 to 100,000,000

Small Star level =100,000,000 to 1 Billion

Star level = 1 Billion to 10 Billlion

Large Star Level=10 Bilion to 100 Billion

Giant Star level=100 Billion to 1 Trillion

Super Giant Star=1 Trillion to 10 Trillion

Muilt Super Giant Star level= 10 Trillion to 100 Trillion

Solar System Buster= 100 Trillion to 1 Qaudrillion

Large Solar System Buster=1 Qaudrillion to 10 Qaudrillion

Low Multi-Star System Buster= 10 Qaudrillion to 100 Qaudrillion

Multi-Star System Buster= 100 Qaudrillion to 1 quintillion

Low Conseatillion Level :10 quintillion to 100 qunitillion

Conseatillion level= 100 quintillion to 1 Sextillion

High Conseatillion level= 1 Sextillion to 10 Sextillion

Low Intestellar Cloud Buster=10 Sextillion to 100 Sextillion

Intestellar Cloud Buster =100 Sextillion to 1 Septillion= Mega Foe

High Intestellar Cloud( 1,000 Galaxies)= 1 Septillion to 10 Septillion

Low Nebula Buster= 10 Septillion to 100 Septillion

Nebula buster = 100 Septillion to 1 Octillion=Giga Foe

High Nebula Buster :1 Octillion to 10 Octillion

Low Multi Nebula Buster :10 Octillion to 100 Octillion

Multi Nebula Buster:100 Octillion to 1 Nonillion= Tera Foe

High Multi Nebula Buster : 1 Nonillion to 10 Nonillion

Low Nebula Cluster Buster: 10 Nonillion to 100 Nonillion

Nebula Cluster Buster: 100 Nonillion to 1 Decillion

High Nebula Cluster Buster:1 Decillion to 10 Decillion=Peta Foe

Small Galaxy level :10 Decillion to 100 Decillion

Galaxy level :100 Decillion to 1 Undecillion

Large Galaxy level1 Undecillion to 10 Undecillion

Low Muilt Galaxy level= 10 Undecillion to 100 Undecillion

Multi Galaxy Buster=100 Undecillion to 1 duodecillion

High Muilt Galaxy Buster =1 duodecillion to 10 duodecillion

Low Quasar Buster( 1,000 Galaxies)=10 duodecillion to 100 duodecillion

Quasar Buster= 100 duodecillion to 1 tredecillion

High Quasar Buster = 1 tredecillion to 10 tredecillion

Low Multi-Quasar Buster :10 tredecillion to 100 tredecillion

Multi-Quasar Buster :100 tredecillion to 1 Quattuordecillion

High Multi-Quasar Buster:1 Quattuordecillion to 10 Quattuordecillion

Low Galaxy Cluster Buster : 10 Quattuordecillion to 100 Quattuordecillion

Galaxy Cluster Buster: 100 Quattuordecillion to 1 Quindecillion

High Galaxy Cluster Buster: 1Quindecillion to 10 Quindecillion

Low Muilt Galaxy Cluster level :10Quindecillion to 100 Quindecillion

Muilt Galaxy Cluster level :100 Quindecillion to 1 Sexdecillion

High Muilt Galaxy Cluster level :1 Sexdecillion to 10 Sexdecillion

Low Galaxy Super Cluster Buster: 10 Sexdecillion to 100 Sexdecillion

Galaxy Super Cluster Buster: 100 Sexdecillion to 1 Septendecillion

High Galaxy Super Cluster Buster: 1 Septendecillion to 10 Septendecillion

Low Muilt Galaxy Super Cluster Buster: 10 Septendecillion to 100 Septendecillion

Muilt Galaxy Super Cluster Buster: 100 Septendecillion to 1 Octodecillion

High Muilt Galaxy Super Cluster Buster:1 Octodecillion to 10 Octodecillion

Low Large Qausar Group buster:10 Octodecillion to 100 Octodecillion

Large Qausar Group buster:100 Octodecillion to 1 Novemdecillion

High Large Qausar Group buster:1 Novemdecillion to 10 Novemdecillion

Low Muilt Large Qausar Group buster:10 Novemdecillion to 100 Novemdecillion

Muilt Large Qausar Group buster:100 Novemdecillion to 1 Vigintillion

High Mutil Large Qausar Group buster: 1 Vigintillion to 10Vigintillion

Low Observable Universe level :10 Vigintillion to 100 Vigintillion

Observable Universe level : 100Vigintillionto 1 Unvigintillion

High Observable Universe level :1 Unvigintillion to 10 Unvigintillion

Muilt Obseravable Universe level :10 Unvigintillion to 100 Unvigintillion

Low Universe level :10 Unvigintillion to 1 duovigintillion or 10^69

Universe level: 1 duovigintillion or 10^69 to 10^72

Universe level+: 10^72 to 10^82

Revised Power level and scaling.

Human level: 5 to 8

Wall Level: 8 to 10

Small Building level: 10 to 15

Building level:15 to 25

Large Building level: 25 to 50

City Block level: 50 to  85 

Muilt City Block level:  85 to 100

Town level : 100 to 125

Large Hill/ Small City Level : 125 to  140

Smalll Mountain/ Medium City level : 140 to 180

Mountain /Large City level : 180  to 200

Large Mountain/Small Island level: 200 to 215

Hamalaya Size Mountain/ Island Level : Power level 215  to 230

Muilt Mountain level/ Large Island level: Power level 230 to  240

Small Mountain range/ Small Country Level: Power level 240  to  260

Mountain Range/Country Level : Power level  260  to 300

Large Mountain Range/ Large Country level: Power level 330 to 360

Small Continent level:Power level 360 to 400

Continent level: Power level 400 to 500

Large Continent level: Power level 500 to 550

Multi Continent level: Power level 550to 600

Moon level : Power level 600 to 700

Small Planet Level: Power level 700 to 800

Planet level:800 to 910

Large Planet level:  910-10,000

Large Planet level+:10,000 to 100,000

Dwarf Star level: 100,000 to 1,000,000

Small Star level: 1,000,000  to 10,000,000

Star level: 10,000,000 to  100,000,000

Large Star level:100,000,000 to  100 Billion

Solar System level:100 Billion  to 10 Quadrillion

Mutil Solar System level: 10 Quadrillion to 1 Quintillion

Galaxy level:1  Quintillion  to  10 Quintillion

Muilt Galaxy level:10 quintillon to 100 Quntilion

Universe level:100 Quntilion to 10 Sextillion

Revisions needed on old threads

Now that I’ve revised the calcs of DBZ and Dragonball, it’s time I start editing out older works of mine that directly scale to that of Dragonball Z and Dragonball.

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/01/31/deus-sama-revised-anime-version-fairy-tail/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/11/03/how-powerful-is-erza-erza-respect-thread-or-why-erza-is-best-anime-waifu-part-1strength/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/11/03/how-powerful-is-erza-erza-respect-thread-or-why-erza-is-best-anime-waifu-part-2speed/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/11/03/how-powerful-is-erza-erza-respect-thread-or-why-erza-is-best-anime-waifu-part-3durability/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/11/03/1066/

For example Erza’s Deus Sema smashing feat  is no longer Raditz level, the recent boost in Raditz power level makes the idea of Erza hurting him utterly laughable. Radtiz pretty much stomps anyone aside from Zeref(With Fairy Heart) and Post Ravines of Time Acnologia with ridiculous  ease,unless the verse gets an upgrade from a 100 year quest.

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/11/02/naruto-vs-ichigo-db-revised-part-1/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/11/02/naruto-vs-ichigo-db-revised-part-2/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/11/03/naruto-vs-ichigo-db-revised-part-3/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/11/03/bleach-and-naruto-freezing-feats/

Hashirama and Yamamoto from Bleach who were once “Raditz level” are also downgraded to being barely Piccolo 23rd Budokai level.Obito who was previously  far above Raditz at Large Planet level+ is now barely stronger than Raditz however at much slower speeds(Slightly FTL>Relativistic speeds)  so Obito is no longer Ginyu force level in strength, just Saiyan Saga level. Madara is still above Nappa and is still Small Star level but suffers the same problem of speed as the rest of the verse.

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/10/24/fairy-tail-revisions-pre-timeskip/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/01/31/fairy-tail-revisionssecond-timeskip-2/

Acnolgoia tanking a Black Hole is now inferior to Final Form Fireza at 100% as Fireza in Final form is Large Star level ablett barely. Also with Ancologia being slower than even Ginyu force characters as he’s barely FTL,hell arguably even slower than Nappa, he has no chance of hitting Fireza unless Fairy Tail 100 year quest gets a major boost in speed.

Naruto and Sasuke, while power wise still arguably  relative to Cell saga characters(As Kaguya is Large Star level+  and Early Cell Saga characters)  are laughably far slower than even Ginyu Saga characters thanks to Goku’s 250,000 c feat

Which is far faster than Sasuke’s reaction speed to Infinite Tysumoki which is only : 27,347.8 SoL (Massively FTL+),nowhere near even Captain Ginyu’s speed

And as we know from DBZ,power is useless without speed.

Other verses I’ve compared to Dragonball/Dragonball Z would also need edits to them.

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/05/26/dumbest-bleachtard-comments-ever-and-vs-battle-wiki-goes-full-bleachtard/

Also VS Battle Wiki loves to wank the shit out of Bleach yet downplay the fuck out DBZ/S, Anyone who seriously thnik that the Soul King in Bleach is eqaul if not stronger than Majin Buu

The same Soul King BTW one shotted by Ywach

Who needed  a stunt double against Yamamoto who’s at best Piccolo Jr Budokai 23rd level

Is seriously on the same level as Kid Buu who fucking destoryed a whole galaxy in 2-3 years?

Keep in Mind Ichigo barely shown Star level feats much less Multi Solar System level feats yet beat Ywach who has the Soul King’s powers.

Besides, even if they were  this strong, much like Naruto, they’re massively outclassed in speed and stand no chance against any character of this tier in DBZ.

/https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/6p87bq/respect_yhwach_bleach/

I’ll debunk more Bleach wank in the near future.

As for my very old Sailor Moon vs DBZ journals, they all need major revisions entirely as both Sailor Moon and DBZ  feats are vastly OUTDATED and is in a long overdue of major revisions.

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/12/28/2952/

Especially when the Sailormoonverse is MUCH more powerful than i originally thought back in 2014, BTW expect a respect thread for the entire verse to follow up on this.

Also expect a future Sailor Moon vs Goku battle here, we would be using all versions  that exist , that should be fun,especially when i get into the feats of Dragonball Super, this would be a rematch of this fight i wrote in 2014 based on a response to a DBZtard downplaying Sailor Moon

ANyways expect revisions to older journals and a possible comparison to verses in future vs battles.

And also expect me to post some  videos on the  ‘How Accurate is Death Battle” on DBZ  as I take a look back into Death Battles bouts and see how they scale on the accuracy level with each verse.

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/12/28/how-powerful-is-kriby/

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2020/04/05/overlooked-kirby-feats-and-new-tiering-system/

I already plan to do one on Kirby and Majin Buu again,especially with Kirby having his own respect thread.(BTW Kirby still stomps Buu, sorry DBZ fanboys, barely Universal doesn’t compare to Mutiversial)

https://roleplayingblog414201607.wordpress.com/2019/12/28/captain-marvel-strongest-marvel-character-debunked/

As well as some interesting battles that have some potential to make for decent fights.

BTW not going to do a direct Goku vs Superman comparison, while i intend to do a death battle analysis on the first two  Superman vs Goku fights(BTW both fights suffered from poor research on DB’s end ) Just Some Robot did an honest look into their powers and did a great video on this so i might make a “How Accurate is Just A Robot’s Superman vs Goku’s videos are”

4 thoughts on “How strong is DB/Z/S? Dragon Ball verse tier list Part 2:Dragonball Z

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